Dual Element Smith HE2 Baseboards

TerrS · December 17

So I have hit a snag in my heating which In one area of my house I just dont have enough elements / BTU's to keep up.. I mean it eventually does, but not really. The area has some insulation and is the combination of a basement with 3 rooms, 2 - 6ft slant-fins and 1 - 2ftx12" Buderus radiator, and I really dont have any room to increase length. So 2 @570 x 6Ft = 6840BTU and the RAD at around 1838 BTU's or around 8678 in total with 180 degree water, and I really should have around 10-11K BTU of output. So I am looking for way to solve.

The first is easy, costly but easy, I can swap the 24x12 buderus (1838) with a 24x24 (3138) btus, so around a 1300 increase. Sorry now my question.

The smith HE2 baseboards have a dual element (pics enclosed)

Could I use the same single supply with a Tee and 90 as input, and then Tee and 90 on the output side to complete the connection? I think there is something about water collision or maybe the supply top element doesnt get enough flow, because of water path of least resistance?? Can someone please explain if this would work to increase the Output BTU's??

Or cause other issues.

Thank you.

Terri

EBEBRATT-Ed · 12:10AM

Yes as long as the existing pipe will give you enough flow. To get the most heat out of it pipe the supplies to one end of each element and the return to both opposite ends.

But when you pipe it on the return end, put a tee on the lower element, bring the return line to the boiler into that tee to up to the upper element. At the upper element put another tee with a air vent on it.

On the supply end put the tee on the top element. Feed this from the boiler and continue it to the bottom element . This balances the flow between elements. Another tee on the lower element instead of an elbow to attach a drain valve if needed.

mattmia2 · 12:26AM

might want to shop around for the panel radiators, they are not very expensive but either solution should work.

EdTheHeaterMan · 12:46AM

If piped direct to the supply and return like B there will be more heat than if you did the return loop like A.

mattmia2 · 12:49AM

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1877834#Comment_1877834

i think they want to go with option c and use a tee at each end

hot_rod · 1:01AM

the output chart shows the difference in piping method and btu output.

Two parallel flows are the highest, the footnote indicates 1.5 GPM minimum to obtain that

EdTheHeaterMan · 1:04AM

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1877835#Comment_1877835

Then that will cause the individual pipes to get 1/2 flow. That will work better if they feed with 1" using a 1x3/4x3/4 tee.

kcopp · 1:15AM

I second the bigger panel radiator.

You will not need to re-invent the piping. It is really plug and play.

There are lots of options to go taller and thicker.

hot_rod · 1:21AM

notice also the fin tube output charts show a higher flow rate performance. Higher flow gives you higher AWT and some additional performance fit. 2-11 shows output change fromm1-4 gpm.

Fig3-15 is more about output at lowered SWT, but does show standard fin vs high output curves.

If you are just a bit short you could increase pump speed/ flow and see if that covers you

Are the fin tubes on the same loop as the Buderus panels? How are they piped?

mattmia2 · 2:09AM

if the table for the smith wants 1.5 gpm for the rated output, 3/4 can do 4 gpm if the rest of the system can get it there. it isn't clear in the footnote if 1.5 gpm is per tube or total. some specific heat math would probably tell you which.

mattmia2 · 2:10AM

a couple used ci radiators would be the cheapest option.

hot_rod · 3:43AM

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1877859#Comment_1877859

I wonder how the Buderus play into it? If they are in series, that could be a flow increase problem

mattmia2 · 3:53AM

1gpm is pushing it for a panel radiator. you'd need a bypass if they are in series

TerrS · 11:48AM

Wow, Thank you for all the replies. Lets see if I can answer everything asked.

First the Buderus panel is first in-line and has a Caleffi bypass valve feeding it. This way everything downstream should not be impacted or much…

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Caleffi-301341-1-Pipe-Angled-Thermostatic-Radiator-Valve-for-Panel-Radiators

The system itself has 2 - 007e pumps. and the 6ft fin is 2nd after the buderus. The path of easiest is to swap the 24x12 buderus to a 24x24, which keeps all the same connections and picks up around 1300 btus. I am not sure how to check my flow rates, so that is still an unknown.

My original question still stands but I think according to EBEBRATT-Ed if I reverse my Tee's on the supply/return sides, I might be able to force the water equal thru the HE2, or close to it, assuming my flow-rate is adequate . The question becomes, I am currently getting around 570BTUS give or take from the current fin, would swapping it out and spending the money on the HE2 give me enough extra BTU's. Meaning potentially 710 - 910 BTU's per FT would add between 840 - 2040 extra BTU's, if I get the full 2K, Im golden and money well spent, if its something less, then my BTU/Money was maybe not worth the work/time/money.

Now I am trying to figure out if I can make what EdTheHeaterMan work, since everything is currently 3/4 copper. Or if swapping the Tee's feed would provide enough flow.

As far as what if I spend all this money and it doesnt fix the issue, its not going to hurt but my bang for my buck might not payoff and then I just live with the issue…

Thanks

Terri

Dual Element Smith HE2 Baseboards

Comments

Categories