Steam Boiler Help
I have a steam boiler and the pressurepetrol settings are setup to the following: Main: 0.5 psi with Diff being at 1 psi. When the boiler runs, it usually sits between 5 psi and 0 psi (highest I’ve seen it go was a little over 5) which I believe causes it to constantly cycle on and off. I attached a picture of a radiator vent. It's a maid o mist #5 and I have 2 of these located in the living room with the thermostat on the dining room right next to the living room. These 2 vents constantly hiss and sometimes water droplets come out. Maybe this is correlated but the water feeder turns on to feed the boiler water since it's low on water. Any advice on how to fix these issues would be greatly appreciated.
Comments
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is the near boiler piping correct?
is the condition of the water in the boiler good?
is the gauge accurate?
is the pigtail for the pressuretrol clear?
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Are all your radiators turned on ( valves open ) ? How much water is being replenished to your boiler and how often compared to the water you're catching from the dripping vents? You're sure you're not having boiler water being thrown into the mains and trying to escape from the vents as they are probably the first relief on the main ? What changed since the system last operated correctly?
And what Matt has already asked
One way to get familiar something you know nothing about is to ask a really smart person a really stupid question0 -
Make sure the pigtail is clean.
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the piping near the boiler should be correct since I had a steam professional look at the piping and told me it was correct.
The condition of the water is usually brown or dark brown until fresh water comes in when the boiler is low on water. Every time I flush the boiler completely of water, the water is clean but when the boiler runs, it turns brown.
I’m not sure how I can test whether the gauge is correct.I’m not sure how I can check whether the pigtail is clear from the pressurepetrol.
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All my radiators are open. When the boiler runs out of water, generally from the sight glass it’s either filled 1/4 of the way or 1/2. The water dripping from the vents starts initially but stops. The water isn’t gushing out but it’s just small drops of water. The drips of water aren’t dripping constantly. The hissing however is constant. What changed last time was we replaced from an oil steam boiler to a gas steam boiler.
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lots of ''steam pros'' have gotten it wrong on other threads here, let's see what you have, post pictures,
you shouldn't be adding enough water to change dark dirty water to clear, things are wrong there, either leakage, or leakage, and all the fresh water is not good for boiler, and contributing to leakage,
let's see a picture of the boiler, floor to ceiling, showing the pipes coming out, floor to ceiling,
let's see the sight glass and the dirty water, and the pressure gage, and the pressure control settings,
known to beat dead horses
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it sounds like the water is leaving the boiler rather than leaking, the question is if it is being thrown out of the boiler in to the mains because it has oil on it or is foaming or the near boiler piping is wrong. or if the near boiler and/or system piping is really wrong and there is a differential between the supply and return and it is being pushed out in to the return
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Watch the glass, while the boiler is firing. Does water level in glass, decrease rapidly? Does water in glass, bounce up and down?
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How long ago was the boiler changed from oil to gas ?
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
If I understood correctly, the boiler should shut off at 1.5psi. It should never get up to 5psi. I’m not sure what vents you have but it’s possible that if boiler runs at too high of a pressure it caused the vents to go bad.
Try putting your hand over the vents when you hear them venting and if the air is hot like steam, they are kaput. You could be loosing water from vents.
Check under your boiler for water on the ground. If you have a Vile McClain, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a leak forming from the fresh water and the age of the boiler (not sure how old your boiler is)
Please send pictures of your boiler, pressuretrol, and radiators that are leaking.
Daniel1 -
Sorry buddy, but this advise is flat out dangerous. If you think that your air vents are possibly leaking steam, do NOT put your hand over them!! The emergency room litmus test, is NOT an acceptable method of testing. Almost like the Salem witches....
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a hand mirror over the vent, which will show condensing steam if the vent is bad, is a lot safer!
—
Bburd0 -
I guess my hands are made of asbestos as I have not had problems checking for leaking vents by putting my hand near them that were leaking steam.
I don’t disagree though! The mirror or a paper towel is definitely safer.0 -
to add one more question to @mattmia2 's list. How much water are you adding to this poor thing? Unless it's a really big boiler, anything much over a gallon a week is too much…
I might add that if it really is getting up to 5 psig, chances are the vents are toast and you will need new ones… in addition to whatever else is wrong.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
Hey Everyone, thanks for all the questions. Here is a link to a Google Drive containing everything that could help you. I have named the pictures to make it easier to identify what you're looking at. I have also included a pre-renovation folder so you get a broader sense of the piping before we cover it up. Note, there are videos in the pre-renovation folder about the hissing main vent and the pipes rattling. Those have been largely fixed; the main vent has a Maid o Mist #1. The pipe banging still occurs but not as much as the video shows, it still happens but it happens here and there.
The oil-to-gas conversion happened, I would say, more than a year ago. This boiler is relatively new. The sight glass currently shows clear water, as I believe the water was fed to the boiler when it was low on water, but I can't confirm this. What I do know is that when it is running, the water is usually brown or darker in the sightglass, and it's usually 1/4 of the way when it is running, jumping up and down.
There are two first-floor living room radiators located in the drive. Those radiators are the ones that constantly hiss and actually drip water.0 -
No link provided
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
The near boiler piping looks about right. Was it skimmed? This looks like at least some oil on top of the boiler water. Does it have more say half an hour after a cycle ends?
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The boiler was skimmed after it was installed. The water is usually brown after the cycle ends. It's clear right now since I believe the water was fed to the boiler when it was low but I can't confirm
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How many times was it skimmed? It takes a few times a few days to weeks apart to get all of the oil out.
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It was skimmed only once
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I uploaded a new video to the drive. It’s unlabeled for now. But I think I can see steam firing downward. You will also see water droplets falling.
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Replace that vent and check the threads in the radiator, it appears to be leaking at the bottom, or at the threads. Also check the pressure of your system when it is running like this.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
when it’s running like this, usually between 0-5. The radiator was making a bunch of noise. I’ll replace the vent tomorrow, a Gorton #5
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ok sounds good. Try to lower your pressure control so it cuts out as close to 1.5psi as you can get it
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
main is already at 0.5 with diff at 1 unless I’m wrong, there is a pic of the settings in the drive
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You shouldn’t set it that though on this model. It goes finicky once you set it below 2. Try putting it where I marked the red line
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Fair enough, but you reported it goes up to 5psi so something is amiss. @DanielDAY 's suggestion in the above post is worth trying.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
yeah that makes sense. I’m outside right now but I will definitely change it. Going up to or beyond 5 psi is rare but it does happen. I’m not sure why that happens or if my boiler is too powerful/oversized. I’m just worried if my boiler is going to explode or something and we all die. Fixing the gas prices or getting faster heating is a plus but that’s really my biggest worry
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If you are concerned, you can attach another pressure control set at a higher cutout (like 8psi), and it can be one that requires a manual reset. That way if that one trips, you will be forced to go downstairs and see what's going on.
Two pressure controls are often required by code for larger systems and/or multi-family buildings
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
Might be worth cleaning out the pig tail if that hasn't been done already.
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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I would try to do a 2 system pressure control but no idea how to implement that other than getting a professional to do it. For now, I’ll focus on the vents.
I just realized that I forgot to give which vents I have.
Main vent - Maid o Mist 1 (Jacobus)kitchen (next to dining room) - Maid Mist 5(Jacobus)
Dining room with thermostat - Maid Mist Unknown (Will check later)
Living room (next to dining room) - 2 radiators with maid mist #5 (Jacobus). One will be replaced with Gorton 5
Bathroom second floor - Gorton D (hisses loudly for a while then stops)
Bedroom second floor - Maid Mist C (Jacobus)
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With a PA404A the Pressuretrol's differential is additive, with this model it is subtractive.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
so the main psi should still be 1 correct?
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For the popular PA404A the typical minimum settings are Cut in = 0.5, Diff = 1 for a Cut out of 1.5.
With that pressuretrol for similar Cut in and Cut out pressures, Main = 1.5, Diff = 1. If it works reliably at lower pressures that may be better.
Your 5 PSIG is concerning. With your situation you may have an oversized boiler and/or other issues, my house heats fine at no more than 0.07 PSIG (2 inches of Water Column).
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
found out that the vent I replaced with the Gorton 5 that was leaking water was literally cracked at the bottom. No idea how that even happened. I’ll check what the pressure is like with the new vent
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I uploaded new pictures of the water level and pressure while the boiler was running. I labeled the pictures for easier use. The pressure is 2 ticks below 5. The radiator I replaced the valve with a Gorton 5 stopped hissing but now gurgles here and there. It stops when the boiler stops and starts gurgling again when it starts. Now, the other living room radiator is hissing (not hissing per se, more like a burning noise). That noise is coming from the radiator itself, not the air valve. Not sure what to do now
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I'd focus on these issues;
Why is the pressure so high, radiation to boiler mismatch, radiator EDR vs boiler Square Feet rating. Is the gauge accurate ? Does the pressuretrol work ? Pigtail and path back into the boiler clear of any obstructions.
Pipe pitch correct, can the system drain condensate back to the boiler properly. Any low spots that traps water. Incorrect piping that traps water.
Clean boiler water, skim to remove any oil.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
I appreciate the advice. Unfortunately I have no idea where to even begin with these
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OK, so what is the game plan ?
Are you going to learn about your steam heating system and do the work yourself ?
Be a knowledgeable homeowner and hire a pro to do the repairs ?
Understand the issues and just live with them ?
Other ?
This may be one starting point;
We Got Steam Heat!: A Homeowner's Guide to Peaceful Coexistence
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System
2
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