Need new boiler

jeff3176 · October 28

Good day.

I had a service tech. do our yearly check up. Our 25 year old Buderus boiler is burning poorly and I can see rust on the inside top.

The tech. quoted me a price for a Navien tankless boiler. Can I replace with a comparable boiler if there is such a thing?

Thanks for the help! Jeff

Jamie Hall · October 28

There's a lot more to it than that.

First, "burning poorly" is a service and adjustment problem. Something a competent tech should be able to remedy. A brand new boiler can burn poorly. A 50 year old boiler can burn very well.

Second, rust — without a leak — is not necessarily a problem. Is it leaking? If not, it ain't broke.

Now let's suppose that it is in fact leaking.

To replace it you first need to know what the actual heat loss or power demand of the system is. With hot water heat, there's no point in putting in a boiler which can make more heat than the building can use. Also with hot water, it helps to know what temperature the system needs to run it — which is determined partly by the heat loss and partly by the radiators or baseboards or whatever that are in there..

Then you need to choose a fuel.

Then you can begin to wonder what boilers to look at.

Oh and just one more thing. We don't quote prices on The Wall.

HVACNUT · October 28

What model is the Buderus?

kcopp · October 29

Never Navien…

EBEBRATT-Ed · October 29

A few pictures would help.

HeatingHelp.com · October 29

Hi @jeff3176, I've edited out the pricing in your post as it goes against the site rules. I also agree with @EBEBRATT-Ed that posting a few pictures of your system would help us help you.

pecmsg · October 29

You didn't get a tech you got a salesman!

Find a different service provider.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes · October 29

You asked for salami, you got baloney.

patrykrebisz · October 29

guys doing yearly check ups, most of the time, dont understand steam.

they know enough to do basic wrenching but their knowledge ends there. and they can actually make your system work worse (as was the case with one of my "techs").

the usual qute for boiler replacement is price of the boiler (look it up) x3. it's expendive! especially since one of those Xs is due to fact that lack of skilled trades people allow the plumbers to quote what they want.

bring in a skilled plumber, not a "tech" that comes with one of those yearly contracts and they should solve your "poor burning ".

jeff3176 · October 29

My boiler is a Buderus G 124 X. When I was told it was burning dirty, the inside wasn’t bad with the exception of the rust. Where the problem is is in the exhaust. The CO reading out the back is around 300 ppm. In the pipe the reading was over that. I’m not getting any CO alarms anywhere in the house.

Jamie Hall · October 30

As we have said — there's probably nothing at all wrong with that boiler that a competent technician with the proper test equipment can't fix.

You don't need a new boiler. You need a competent tech.

mattmia2 · October 30

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1870021#Comment_1870021

or possibly jusat waiting until it is hot before measuring.

JMWHVAC · October 30

Every so often I get called for a second opinion on wether a boiler needs replacement or not. Seems more often than not I tell the customer that while a new setup would save fuel, their boiler is in fine shape. What I find amusing is that sometimes the customer does eventually decide to upgrade and he gets us to do it instead of the company that said it needs replacing.

clammy · October 30

You got a salesmen ,the g124 is most likely one of the best cast iron boiler made in recent decades . In the past i have installed many and never had one issue ,I had a large company tell my parents that there g124 was in bad shape and parts where unavailable total bull being there off the shelf common parts . Get a new tech not a salesmen.

clammy

HVACNUT · October 30

Is that the shadow of a steel compression tank on the wall? If so, the air eliminator shouldn't be there. And the boiler is fine.

hot_rod · November 1

what type of heat emitters, radiators or fin tube?

Rust around the flue connection could indicate it has been running to low of a temperature. Or short cycling due to over sizing. This can also lead to dirty combustion chambers

MikeySW · November 4

I was just about to post concerning upgrading my 20 year old Munchkin boiler, and I can really identify with the OP's anxiety and questions. I have had the 'pleasure' of trying to maintain my in floor radiant heating system and indirect water heater with said mentioned boiler for 6 years now.

I have found it nearly impossible to locate a competent company in this area (SW Idaho) for such a system. The first company I found said that "I should replace my boiler as soon as possible" without even taking the cover off. When I asked why he said because it's 'old' and the company doesn't exist any longer. Uh, okay.

Several others in the chain of techs that have been in my maintenance room have also said this so I agree you need to find a competent tech because these guys are all salesmen in my opinion.

So for the veterans of heating boilers here, it does beg the question when do you know when you should be looking to replace a boiler? What do you look for? Do you physically need to examine the combustion chamber and other parts of the unit? I'm just wondering how to assess the need and how to do it. The last thing any of us wants is a boiler that actually does fail in the middle of the winter and you have to scramble to replace it. I know in my case due to the lack of providers, it may take me weeks to find someone or bring someone in from another area.

Any comments appreciated.

EBEBRATT-Ed · November 4

About all you can do is a visual inspection. No leaks you run it until it does, or you can't get parts.

Lack of qualified technicians is an issue.

If they can't fix the old boiler or don't want to just because its old what do, they do when they install a new boiler, they know nothing about? Cross their fingers and hope it starts and have tech support on speed dial.

That's not a real technician.

mattmia2 · November 5

no longer being able to get parts will likely be the limiting factor. some of the parts for a munchkin are still available from htp.

MikeySW · November 5

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1870891#Comment_1870891

I actually found a place out of Ohio that still stocks a lot of HTP stuff (Jupiter Plumbing) so I think I can get parts readily. I'm still in the process of figuring out what I can do myself. I'm not a plumber or HVAC guy, but I can usually figure things out and get basic maintenance done. I'll wait until summer and see if I can do some basic boiler maintenance and see if my flame regulator and hot surface ignitor are still good. I think I found a video that will walk me through a basic boiler service. I did have it done by the only competent guy I could find back in 2020. That company now does not service boilers any longer.

mattmia2 · November 5

someone needs to check the combustion wit a combustion analyzer every now and then

MikeySW · November 5

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1870939#Comment_1870939

Assuming this is some sort of specialized device? Can a regular homeowner like me buy one? Remember, I have no pro support in this area. None. I have desperately tried to find someone. The company I have now specializes in geothermal systems, but I think they are competent in some ways, but not in others.

EdTheHeaterMan · November 5

As a professional I used to purchase combustion analyzers for over $1000.00 each and provide one for each of the service technicians that worked for me. They were all trained on how to use them and there were 2 spare kits in the shop in the event that one needed to be sent to the factory for recalibration (about once every two years). My kits also included Smoke spot testers since I did a lot of oil burner work. You won't need that for your gas boiler testing.

This is an inexpensive tester you may want to purchase. CEA Combustion tester. I never used this model however I have used other UEI testing equipment and found them acceptable for professional use.

EBEBRATT-Ed · 12:57AM

Some of those less expensive models do not do CO

Steamhead · 5:19AM

Looks like that CEA doesn't. Find one that does.

Need new boiler

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