Gas valve/solenoid stuck open on old Janitrol boiler
This doesn't happen every time, but it has been happening more frequently lately. The radiators heat up and the gas continues to heat the boiler even when I turn off the thermostat. If I don't notice that the gas has not turned off, the radiators will continue to heat up to very high temperatures and sometimes the water pressure will build up and the hot water relief valve will open at 30psi and dump some water on the floor. Most times I can turn the thermostat on and off and have the boiler turn on and off so I don't think it's an issue with the thermostat.
There is a mechanical pull switch on the gas valve that allows you to open and close the gas manually. I noticed that this can sometimes stick open if it's pulled all the way out. I cleaned it with a swab and some wd-40 and acetone and then oiled it lightly. If I pull and let go of this switch it springs back and closes the valve but if I pull it all the way it sticks open. So, I'm concerned that it's still going to stick open. Does anyone have ideas for other things to try? Are these parts something that can be serviced and tuned up or is it just too old and no one will work on it? I have more pictures and a video if needed.
Comments
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That is a very dangerous condition. You need to immediately turn off the gas and electricity to the boiler & call to get it serviced before you end up killing yourself or someone else.
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Are there people who can service the components of such an old boiler? I assume it was made in the 1950s and these parts are no longer available. I suspect if I call a technician they will just want to replace the whole boiler. Since I cleaned the sticky solenoid switch it has cycled on and off several times on its own and is working fine, but I would like to have a professional tune it up if I can find someone who knows how to work on something this vintage.
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It'll likely possible to replace the gas valve & ancillary parts with modern components, but it may take some looking to find the right person to do it. Try the "Find a Contractor" link in the blue bar above.
Given the age, replacement might be the correct answer.
You still shouldn't operate it until it has been serviced. Gas stuck on is a serious failure. If the pressure relief fails, a boiler explosion is the next step.
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Yeah, finding a person who is willing to replace the "gas valve & ancillary parts with modern components" seems like the challenge. I don't want to call someone and have them red tag it and force me to replace it. It has been working for me just fine for over 20 years. But I agree with you that this is a serious issue if it sticks open again. At this point I don't leave the house unless I turn the gas and electricity to the furnace off which obviously isn't a long term solution.
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It has been working for me just fine for over 20 years.
Until now!
Shut it down. Will most contractors replace it……..Yes because we do not want to accept the responsibility and liability associated with that antique, especially if it was in my own home!
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Being as it's a boiler & not a furnace, it may be worth the effort to find someone to replace the gas train. You'll have to work to find the right person, but you might come out in the black.
I'm glad you understand that there are risks here.
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Replace the old gas valve and regulator with a modern combination valve.
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Or if the pressure reducing valve or municipal water supply fails it will dry fire and possibly start a fire in the process of melting down.
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Basically don't operate it until you replace the gas train with a modern combination valve.
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Since I cleaned the sticky solenoid switch it has cycled on and off several times on its own and is working fine,
I have a problem with that statement because of this statement:
This doesn't happen every time, but it has been happening more frequently lately. The radiators heat up and the gas continues to heat the boiler even when I turn off the thermostat…
If the boiler is that old that the most important part of the safety devices on this boiler is failing dangerously more than once, what is to say that some other old part will not fail. What if the relief valve happens to be the part that fails? What if it happens at the same time, when you can't be there as a result of an unscheduled event that takes you away from "If I don't notice that the gas has not turned off," because you are hospitalized or at a funeral or your Lottery ticket that wins takes you the the Governors Office for "photo-op"
What happens to this water heater, could happen in a very short time with your boiler.
This water heater is only 40 gallons of water, and it happened in less than one hour. Your heating boiler with all the radiators has much more water and therefore much more explosive force when something gives way, and all that water that is over 300 PSI and end up well over 400°F, rapidly changes to steam as the pressure drops to zero PSI where 400°F water flashes into steam instantly, and becomes 1700 times larger than it was when it was water.
To put this in perspective. TNT increases about 900 times its size when it explodes. Water becomes 1700 times larger when it explodes. That is almost two times the explosive power that Dynamite!
As a person that has no training on how to play with fire inside your building, can I suggest that you SHUT THAT BOILER OFF NOW and listen to the professionals who have been trained in this "playing with fire" in your building, while you still have a building.
Just some ramblings from an old guy with over 40 years in the trade. Probably worthless information. But If it were me… I would aer' on the side of caution
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I have several contractors coming out in the morning to give me quotes on replacement. It's off and there is no reason to run it since it's not the cold season yet. All is safe, thanks for your concern.
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If you have this information ready for an experienced gas heat technician, you can ask them what it might cost to remove the old standing ignition parts and install this electronic ignition kit to make the old boiler more reliable. https://www.supplyhouse.com/Resideo-Y8610U6006-Intermittent-Pilot-Control-Conversion-Kit-for-270000-BTU-Units
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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If you have this information ready for an experienced gas heat technician, you can ask them what it might cost to remove the old standing ignition parts and install this electronic ignition kit to make the old boiler more reliable. Y8610U Kit
It will replace all the parts in this photo
There may also be a 1/4" aluminum pilot tube that comes from the manual shut off valve the will need to be removed and capped off. This is the Cadillac repair, however there are less expensive repairs available. Just remember the price you pay at SupplyHouse.com is the wholesale price and if the contractor provides you that kit. It will be marked up and include labor to install the parts. It is a time consuming job and will also need additional parts and fittings to make the piping connections. The professionals are entitled to make a profit on both the parts and labor they pay the technician. So don't be shocked at the total price. Safety with a guarantee is worth the cost in my opinion.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Replace the boiler.
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Thanks, Ed. That was exactly the kind of info I was looking for. This boiler is built like a tank, and if all the parts that you mention could be replaced I bet it could last another 25 years and still be safe. I've been taking it apart for 25 years, cleaning it, and putting the burners back. Replaced the thermal couple and that gas shutoff valve with the tiny shutoff valve for the pilot. (I found a supply house that sold me a NOS replacement — he said that design is no longer code but the old one was leaking so it needed to be replaced) My initial inclination was to repair the boiler because a new one is never going to last as long as this one has. But I've come around to the idea that it's had a good run and it's time for a new one. (I may still ask contractors if they'd replace the parts with that kit for curiosity) I talked with one contractor on the phone who told me a 94% efficiency boiler needs lots of maintenance and only lasts 15 years and a new cast iron 84% will last 25 years. I don't know exactly how old this boiler is but it's at least 60 years old. New stuff isn't made to last like this anymore.
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Theey made them really tough back in the 1940s and 1950s. but fuel was less expensive so they did not care about how efficient they were. If this boiler was put to the test that the new boilers are required to pass, I believe that your boiler would be rated at about 65% AFUE. New boilers must be at least 80% AFUE. So a new boiler would save you a minimum of 15% on your utility cost for heating. Now if you have a $2000,00 per month fuel bill, then a new boiler is recommended, and I would consider a 94% or higher system. If your bill is as low as $100 per month, then it is not worth the cost of the replacement because it will take over 20 years to recover the cost of the new boiler in energy savings. I have a feeling your average gas bill is a little higher than $100/month but you need to decide if a replacement boiler is worth the investment.
The still make boilers like your existing boiler but use less water to heat up so that makes them more efficient. And you can't change that about your boiler. They also add an automatic vent damper and spark ignition so you done leave the pilot on the entire time. With the Y8610U Kit you will be adding one feature that will make your boiler more efficient. If you measure the vent pipe to the chimney and purchase the proper size vent damper, you can save even more on your operating cost. Here is one example of the 7" Auto vent damper available for your boiler. You will need the GVD wire harness so you can plug in directly into the Y8610U control. It is plug and play
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I wonder how much the vent damper saves, i wonder if it saves enough to pay for the couple hundred bucks every 20 years or so to replace it when it fails.
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We're on a budget saver program that spreads out the winter gas bill over more months, so it's hard to say what the cost is. It would include gas for a range and dryer, but those probably add a minimal $ amount. I'd say we pay between $100-200 per month on budget saver with some really cold months going as high as $400 (actual cost for one month, not what we pay). There are fed and state tax credits right now that end next year for installing an energy efficient boiler but that amounts to maybe $300 state and $600 fed - not much. Also, when it's time to sell the house and a buyers see the 1950s Janitrol that's likely to make it harder to sell the house. Also piece of mind knowing everything is in new condition and safe is worth something. So there are a lot of "costs" to consider that are less tangible.
Just looking at the price for parts that Ed posted and considering hiring a technician to do the work will be 3 times that, it seems to be more cost-effective to replace the boiler rather than upgrade the parts. The only reason I can see fixing the existing boiler is if it's cheap to do, otherwise replacement seems smarter.
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Is the vent damper a standard part of a new boiler installation or optional? It doesn't seem worth it. It also seems like a longer-lasting cast iron boiler with a lower efficiency is a better option than the 94% efficiency models that have a lower life span unless your heat bills are huge. Thoughts?
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