New NYC steam radiator inspection law - what does it mean?
I just saw this new law pass in NYC requiring steam radiators to be inspected after there has been some horrible accidents in the past:
My understanding was besides the vent and the valve, there isn’t much that can go wrong about the radiator itself, assuming the boiler is operating properly.
Isn’t the radiator really just a transporter of the heat and any issue that could be dangerous is really a boiler problem not a radiator problem?
What does a radiator safety inspection look like? Aside from making sure the vent is attached properly.
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I wonder if the inspector would even know the difference between a one pipe and 2 pipe system, where on one a radiator vent would be needed and the other it would not?
And what would the inspector think if he saw radiators on a Paul air line system, or all the various vapor systems?
Dennis Pataki. Former Service Manager and Heating Pump Product Manager for Nash Engineering Company. Phone: 1-888 853 9963
Website: www.nashjenningspumps.com
The first step in solving any problem is TO IDENTIFY THE PROBLEM.0 -
it doesn’t even seem to outline what the inspection consists of or what exactly should be inspected or even if it has to be done by a licensed plumber or just a homeowner.
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This is the "green energy" people trying to get rid of steam and fossil fuel
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The ispection will be:
walk in the room. yup that's a radiator and then walk out.
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Yeah it feels like what safety measure will this satisfy?
Based on the accidents which happened, is it ever the radiator at fault rather than the boiler?
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" His room steamed up to almost 300 degrees "
How is this even possible.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
Sounds like the common justification: "Something must be done! This is something, therefore it must be done!!1!"
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Part of this is educating the tenants. I’ve seen many times in NYC where tenant will turn the air vent upside down to stop the overheating. Many times it’s hanging by a thread. High steam pressure (typical) can knock the vent off. Steam fills the room, which most of the time will have a closed door so the kids can sleep. I’m very glad they’re finally doing the inspections.
Retired and loving it.
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Thanks so much for chiming in, Dan.
So as a homeowner, what exactly should I look for or what do you believe this inspection should consist of?Making sure vents are properly secured? No steam escaping out of vents? Anything else?
And would you say that if the system is being run at the appropriate low pressure, then there should really be no danger to worry about on the radiator end of things?
The language I’ve seen about this law doesn’t seem to say lay out exactly what to inspect or be looking for or even if it needs to be done by a homeowner or a licensed plumber.0 -
Thanks. Yes to the vent and the supply valve. Also be sure a child’s bed is not too close to an uncovered radiator. In NYC, little kids have fallen out of bed and gotten trapped between the side of the bed and the steaming radiator. It’s horrible.
Retired and loving it.0 -
This is just a law requiring what would be called proper practice. I tell my Coop and clients of mine that there must be a check of radiators and a steam on test prior to the heating seasons start. No responsible building manager, owner or property manager should have to be told this. Several years ago, a steam vent on a radiator came off and filled a small bedroom with steam. Fortunately, the person who normally sleeps there was not present. This person is know to be under the influence. He could have died easily. The vent was not properly attached. The vent treads were not NPT 1/8 standard and someone 'Made it fit". I deep tapped the radiator vent hole and changed the vent. Legally, unless I could prove that there were inspections and tampering occurred just after, my Coop and I as an engineer, would be liable. All of the radiators supply valves and radiator vents and master vents are inspected in my Coop. You cannot trust the shareholders or tenants. Not only do residents tamper with radiators an associated equipment, but some "real men of genius" have installed their own radiators and TRVs.
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So what happens if the radiator is inspected and is passed as compliant and then the tenant adds a TRV or messes with the vent and causes a problem? How do you prove it or point the finger? Take a time stamped picture of every radiator?
Steam has been around for 140 years
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Dan, if a valve or pipe fully cracked or a vent did come fully off, but the system was running properly and was at the appropriate low pressure (like .5 or 1lb pressure?), would it still be very dangerous in that room?
I’m just curious what would happen in this situation.
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Funny you think they may actually go into the rooms.
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@bipbap if the bedroom door is closed the steam will displace the air. Much depends on how long this goes on before anyone notices. Kids have died from this in NYC.
Retired and loving it.0 -
I am 100% behind safety measures. Safety first, always. But let's just walk ourselves off the ledge a bit. Many more kids have died from tricycles, and cribs, and pillows, and dogs, and window shade chords, and .......…, then from steam radiator related issues. I'm not even sure if there are five documented cases of kids dying from Steam related Burns or asphyxiation. And steams been around for an awful long time
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I’m thinking that if one kid doesn’t matter then none of us matters.
Retired and loving it.
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The whole question — of which this is a part — is one of balancing a known risk (with widely variable consequences and level of hazard) with variable capability of users to understand the risk and how to mitigate it with varying desirability of reducing the risk by government action and possibly restriction or regulation.
And there is no easy answer. There isn't even any one answer! For those of us who have been around for a while and been observant it is really fascinating to see what risks were tolerated and how that perception has changed over the years.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
As I stated, all of the radiators are inspected in my Coop and other buildings that are clients of mine. Also, I take pictures and note the type of vents and their condition. You as owners / Management should protect yourselves. I forgot to point out that the incident in my building where the vent came off, the pressure was above 3psi. There really is no excuse for this happening.
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Of course every life matters. But as Jamie said, where do we draw the line? Should kids only be fed the bare minimum of food, because kids sometimes choke on food. Should cars be banned, because people die in car accidents? Should every car seat be inspected, by a government official, every time a kid is taken for a car ride? Should the government be checking the wheels on every kid's bike and tricycle? Should the government be checking everyone's medicine cabinet, to make sure the containers are closed properly? Should the government banning or restricting or inspecting the pets in every home that has a kid?
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What exactly does your inspection consist of?
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I've had just the opposite experience. As a rambunctious teenager the dining room vent was broken off the radiator. We (I) did not repair right away, may have went for weeks or longer until the boiler water consumption became annoying (manual fill). The steam coming out was no greater than a lazy tea kettle boiling, no one felt threatened.
Come to find out decades later this house heats just fine at no more than 2 inches of water column (0.072 PSIG). Maybe the issue is not so much the radiators and vents but the Boiler / EDR sizing and the boiler pressure being too high. Which the residences usually have no control over.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
And inspections don't guarantee safety. Dan references such a situation in one of his books, where a babysitter removed an air vent, because the room was not warm enough. The child died from lack of oxygen. Unless the inspector happened to be there at that moment, it's fairly unlikely that inspection would have made a difference. In all likelihood, that young teenage babysitter, had seen her parents and other adults, doing the same thing, without adverse results.
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And just for the record, I am the safety nut of my family. Was going on an outing with extended family. One adult family member refused to buckle their seat belts. While I was the driver. I refuse to drive without that family member buckled in. He refused and got out of the the vehicle and did not talk to me for many months afterwards.
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First of all, As a manager and owner, I do not want anyone to get injured or die because of a problem with equipment on my property. This applies to the side walks, fire escapes, roof access, gas and combustible air ect. I make it clear to all residents, they may not modify alter or disconnect anything attached to the radiator. It is in the lease. They are allowed to turn the supply valve off. The inspection that I perform is a steam on inspection. I will verify that there are no leaks from the supply valve or vent openings, or the radiator itself, there is proper tilt allowing condensate to flow back to the supply valve, the radiator is on a stable flooring, the vents open when air is forced up and close when they are heated by steam. I will then take a picture of the radiator. If there is a master vent, verify that it is operating. Each radiator has a ID: example: R451 R = radiator, 4 = floor, 5 = line, 1 = riser pipe left to right. This will take time but resolves other issues like balancing.
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and how many steam radiators are we talking about just in Manhattan?
The city does have that kind of manpower.
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» The steam coming out was no greater than a lazy tea kettle boiling,
Which is what usually happens in a single-family home.
But an apartment building can easily build up pressure if the balance isn't right and then it gets dangerous. I wasn't even aware of this risk but it makes sense.Is it clear from the legislation that this only applies to single-pipe steam? I'm not sure what would be inspected on a two-pipe system.
I also have to wonder if an education campaign wouldn't be more efficient. As has been pointed out, taking off or breaking off a vent takes seconds.
On the other hand, the co-op or building owner has a vested interest in inspecting or informing the residents. Who the heck knows steam in 2025 — even if you live with it? I didn't know nuthin' until my system bought the farm…cheers -matt
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That would require a steam pressure of over 50psi. I'd be very surprised if there was that much pressure in the radiator. Nevertheless, the law should've included a maximum steam pressure for the system.
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The actual text of the law can be seen at https://legistar.council.nyc.gov/View.ashx?M=F&ID=12973102&GUID=321D4B4B-3223-4E2D-8067-30BAA45721EA
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