Outdoor reset
Vesta VRC combi.
The book lists an outdoor reset plug in, but it seems the outdoor reset is as real as union tears. The few places that list it say it's not available.
Boiler is only ~3 years old so not like I'm trying to find parts for a dinosaur.
Vesta calls it an outdoor temperature sensor, I think.
Part number I have is 2081140.
Any idea where I can buy this? I've not had any success.
Have been adjusting the temp manually, but it's tough staying on top of it so it's not pouring too much heat to the slab when it's 45* like now, but might be 25* next week.
It's not exactly a huge deal, just end up with it pushing close to 75* during the day when the thermostat is set to 68. Have been running it around 85-90* for late spring, summer and early fall, then kicking it up to around 130* in winter.
I'm not sure if it’s unique to Vesta or others would work. Like one for a Navien is around $60 and easy to find.
Comments
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Most of the temperature sensors will use a thermister that changes resistance based on the temperature. I would try to
- Contact Tech support at VESTA in Texas
- If that does not work for you, then try a generic tthermistor like this one:
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Siemens-QAC2030-Outdoor-Temperature-Sensor-NTC-10K-Ohm-Type-2
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
0 - Contact Tech support at VESTA in Texas
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there is a customer service number on their website and a locator tool to find reps and distributors
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Yes, they didn't know.
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I don't stock these but I have contacts with the rep in my state I can ask if they know if a standard 10k outdoor sensor from tekmar will work
1 -
Possibly find a current part number, from a newer boiler. Maybe the same sensor inside. I tried to look at some install manuals but was unable to down load them from their web site.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
Something weird might be happening with that company the rep here said they don't rep them any longer but they are still listed on the website. and the manuals don't seem to download. found an archived one on manualslib but they don't say what the sensor spec is. If vesta tech support can't tell you, and the parts are not available, and the spec is not even known….. I'm not sure what to say…. Other than I am glad I wasn't talked into stocking these by the rep, they were pushing pretty hard several years ago.
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I just called vesta tech support and the guy told me they have them in stock and can ship them out overnight shipping so you might try calling them again! They also told me you could use a 3rd party one for what its worth i didnt ask for that part number i just told them I was trying to help someone locate a sensor for a VRC combi
1-800-761-0053
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Tried them and just going to voicemail for something hard to understand but sounds like like "**** or lussy aleverez"... maybe buccee like the gas station.
They person I talked to before was a lady and the whole deal didn't make me feel confident when this unit fails on getting parts. Got the impression they just sold throwaway units.
I didn't pick it, was part of my buying this place. Old unit was a Baxi and it failed after only 7 years. I likely would have picked a well known brand.l, provided it wasn't crazy more $%.
Edit..... I guess **** is a swear... pussywillow.... without the willow. Wasn't it a 007 girl's name even?
I'm not using it to be vulgar, just relaying the info in case it'd help anyone else in the future.
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I often use 3 of the letter X in a row to indicate an unknown quantity or model number, and one of my comments was withheld for "Admin Review". They have a pretty good Porn filter built in to the site to stop spammers from overloading this site with garbage. I think it is a good thing. Now I use XYZ in lieu of three X in a row. So your descriptive personal noun, falls into a less restrictive term and just **** it out.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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most manufactures will not talk to the end user only contractors.
they have enough issues dealing with those that should know what there doing.0 -
Dunno why would it would matter, my money is green too.
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Some industries did, maybe still do, have paid tech support. Early in the call they get you CC number. In general dealing with the general public can be very time consuming.
Your situation is a bit different, you seem to know exactly what you want, you just can't find it.
For the money I would try @EdTheHeaterMan's supplyhouse.com solution posted above.
Pictures like this give me the feeling they are the same part.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System1 -
At the risk of sounding really truly cynical, there is a very good reason that many manufacturers will only deal with known contractors, in trades which are licensed, licensed contractors. As @109A_5 noted up there, dealing with the general public can be very time consuming, and there is no easy way to determine whether a given individual is actually competent. Perhaps more to the point, in today's environment, a member of the general public is very apt to sue you if they do something unfortunate with the part you sold them, never mind the advice you gave them which they didn't follow. And that is not just expensive from the standpoint of the tech's time talking to you, but from the standpoint of the legal eagles…
I am NOT a contractor or licensed anything — just a moderately capable do it yourselfer with decades of experience trying to make things work. If a given supplier has a policy of selling only to contractors or licensed people, so be it. That's their policy, and their ball game, and I will play by their rules.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
For the couple of bucks, I would buy the supplyhouse part. Even if the sensor reads a bit off, you can always just adjust the reset curve points to match actual reading.
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Supply House wants $58 shipping, so it becomes a $75 part.
Fine if it's correct, but that's a pricey gamble... that's a week of groceries!
For whatever reason their shipping has always been beyond ridiculous. That sensor is truly like $15-20 to ship, that's not factoring in a commercial account with large discount.
Like the place my brother works ships and receives literally tons a week. Their rates are less than 1/2 of the counter price.
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Have met plenty of "pros" that aren't at all. And I've had to fix lots of "pro" jobs.
In any case, it seemed simple enough to order in the part, but then found the part exists, but doesn't.
The place the boiler came from doesn't sell them anymore, said they had a falling out, almost seemed like Vesta was out of business, but they exist online, so not sure.
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Amazon Prime sells this Outdoor Temperature Probe that is what is inside the Siemens part that SuppyHouse.com sells. Your wife may have Amazon delivering stuff all the time , so you may get free shipping.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
0 -
Check your PM.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
I'm not sure usually I have bad luck calling manufacturers customer service and tech support but these guys just immediately got on it, found the part and offered to ship it to me. I never told them I was a distributor or contractor, they actually seemed really helpful which is exceptionally rare imo lol I wouldn't use a probe style sensor as an air sensor though! better off trying a tekmar 070
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What is special on the tekmar?
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I suspect it (the Tekmar 070) is very similar to the original unit that @EdTheHeaterMan suggested. The thermistors themselves come is various shapes and sizes (the outer housing of the actual thermistor its self). For outdoor reset functionality the thermistor has to be outside and out of the elements so the thermistor is put in a weather resistant plastic housing for protection.
A 10K (10,000) Ohm thermistor can have different curves as the temperature changes. Which is where the resistance is at a specific temperature. The 10 K reference resistance is only one point on the curve and it is usually at 25 degree Celsius or 77 degrees Fahrenheit. I believe the Beta = 3892 (Tekmar) or the Type-2 (Siemens QAC2030) defines which graph shows the temperature plot and maybe other characteristics of the thermistor. I suspect they are very similar.
Tekmar 070
" Beta = 3892 is the B-constant of an NTC thermistor. (NTC = Negative Temperature Coefficient) "
" A thermistor "Type-2" is a classification for a thermistor, often with a 10K resistance at 25°C, that has a specific non-linear resistance-temperature curve, designed for use in particular building automation systems and other applications where its unique curve provides accurate temperature readings within its defined operating range. "
So what I get out of this is, "Type-2" is a term used building automation systems industry.
Beta or B-constant is more within the thermistor manufacturing industry.
It would not surprise me that in the -10 degrees Fahrenheit to 68 degrees Fahrenheit range the resistance of these two units would track very close to each other.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System1 -
Still no answer or call back at Vesta customer support.
1 -
Look like they track pretty close for the practical useful range of outdoor temperatures.
Type-2 (Siemens QAC2030)
Tekmar 70
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
Thanks
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Was able to get the boiler to program the outdoor reset, but not positive the sensor I got is correct or if I'm not using the right settings?
I ordered the one that Ed suggested…
I'd like to have 130* boiler temp at 10* outside and colder, and 90* at 68* and it to scale roughly evenly through that range.
Normally I just set it to 100* once late spring hits and leave it there until around September and kicked it up to 110* until it's staying below freezing and leave it at 130* all winter.
With the outdoor reset I'd expect if it's 40* outside, the boiler be at around 100-105*. I tested it using cold water (temp verified with a known good thermometer) and it wanted to heat at 120*. The boiler doesn't show what outdoor temp it think it is, so I can't confirm if my sensor is correct. It just shows the commanded water temp.
The whole point of trying to get this working is to match the water temp with the heat load so the boiler isn't barely keeping up when it's really cold, or pumping way too much heat into the slab when just needs a little. The goal would be to improve comfort and reduce energy use.
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When the boiler was installed I had asked about an outdoor reset and the installer said it was a waste, that he just sets them to around 125-135* and leaves it.
The Vesta specs for outdoor reset temps seem awful cold too. They spec boiler temp of 82*-122*. When it's -30*, the boiler pumps are running almost non stop with it at 130* (boiler isn't firing the whole time of course)
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do you have the manual for the boiler? usually there would be a way to adjust the ODR in some capacity as the required temp would be different for different style emitters. some models have you set the low and high temps like you describe, some have selectable heating curves. There should be a section in the manual about it somewhere.
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Just the info in there that I posted, on either the factory temps or can adjust them.
Not entirely sure what the ideal temps are.
I've been running it at 100* down to about 40* for highs, and then 110* till it's staying in the 20s and 130* for the winter.
First year just left it at 130 per the heating guy's info. Kept the place warm just fine, but it tended to overheat it during the spring and fall. Would run at night when it got cold and come afternoon it was 8-10* over the T Stat setting.
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Oh, I got through to their tech support. I random person that didn't introduce himself answered… Just "hello?"
Dunno, at work I say "company name, this is Nate"
Anyhow, was very helpful, wasn't reading a script with no understanding of the setup. I quickly explained what I was trying to do, and he gave me the info. (Just a heads up in case anyone else searches this in the future, to get to the menu for the outdoor reset, turn the master switch off, DIP switch #2 ON, then turn master switch on, and it's mode and +. Once programmed per the manual, master off, dip switch off, master on and it's GTG.
The manual failed to mention the master switch part so I couldn't get in the menu.
No idea who I talked to or where he was working from, and maybe I just got lucky? The other calls I'd made just went right to a lady named Lussy or with a P Alvarez voicemail.
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As far as max temp….
I'd always been told 140*, but searching online I've found some info of people running just straight cast iron boiler temp water… so 160-180*
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More and more manufacturers are outsourcing their tech support. Retired hydronic contractors or reps are often who is on the other end of the line
You’d rather have an experienced hand on person on the line than someone reading from the same manual that you have.
There are no exact setting numbers for ODR, it needs to be configured to your system, heat emitters, and expected outdoor temperatures the manuals give you starting point examples
If you don’t have some accurate load and swt data, it will be trial and error
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1 -
Only numbers I know is that roughly 50* and higher outdoors, 100* works fine. 20-50*, 110* and under 20* I put it to 130*, and that has kept the place at 68* ok.
130* was what the boiler tech said to use, and I'd be told can't go much hotter than that in a slab, but reading some last night, it seems up to 140* is generally agreed to be fine and some say 160, and even 180*, so not sure. I remember as a kid we went to the Arch Hanger at Loring AFB in winter for a Cub Scout trip and the floor was so hot it was almost painful to sit or kneel on it.
My water temp numbers likely could move around some and still be fine I bet. It hasn't been an exact thing. My main thing is being able to lower the temp when the outside isn't so cold, which will reduce temp overshot inside, not to mention save a bit of $$. The outdoor reset was quite cheap, so would think it wouldn't take much to pay for itself on saved natural gas.
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