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state 80 gallon electric heater extra charge for instructions

mikedo
mikedo Member Posts: 280

bought a state 80 gallon electric water heater its can be converted to use different voltages. why do they charge 35 dollars for the instructions and 3 stickers to convert it ?

Comments

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,136

    usually changing the voltage of an electric water heater involves changing the elements.

  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,951

    Hi @mikedo , What are you trying to do? Are you going from AC to DC, or using 120 VAC instead of 240 VAC? 🤔

    Yours, Larry

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,358

    I imagine the charge is to help discourage people who may not be aware of what needs to be done from trying to do it.

    If you going from 240 to 208, you will only lose some recovery speed unless you change the elements. However, if you are trying to go to 120 you will need different elements entirely and the wiring is quite different.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 25,651

    If you modify the factory wiring or elements I imagine you lose the UL listing, possibly warranty?

    Changing element voltage or wattage is simple, changing the voltage to the heater, single to 3 phase, or factory wire size, not so easy

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 2,757

    Model number ?

    Is this a HP or a discontinued version ?

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,136

    some quick looking at the state web site shows some commercial models that claims to be able to be set for something like 240v, 208v, 480v, and single or three phase delta or wye.

  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 2,757
    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,716

    Best to use a water heater equipped with your current… (sorry) electrical system.

    In the past, some water heaters were installed with a 20-amp breaker and #12AWG wire size. It was too small for a water heater. Upgrading to a 30-amp breaker and #10AWG wire is what is required on most residential water heaters.

    Is this what you are referring to? Not sure where you're going with this.

  • mikedo
    mikedo Member Posts: 280

    the change in voltage is how they get around goverment regulations . not suppossed to use an 80 gallon in residental homes i believe

  • mikedo
    mikedo Member Posts: 280

    all you need to do is move a wire

  • mikedo
    mikedo Member Posts: 280

    and it changes it from 277 to 240

  • Karl Reynolds
    Karl Reynolds Member Posts: 78

    Mikedo is correct. Government regulations don't want you to have a 66, 80, or 120 gallon electric water heater in your house, so the mfg's consider these "Light Service" commercial heaters. They ship as 277 volt single phase, 12.2kW wired simultaneously. Moving around a couple of wires gets it back to 240v 4.5kW. The stickers are for the next guy to work on it.

  • mikedo
    mikedo Member Posts: 280

    thanks karl you can download the insrtuctions online for free and use a sharpie to write on it that it has been converted . just another example of how manufactors dont care about trades people just how much money they can make off are hard work

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,458
  • mikedo
    mikedo Member Posts: 280

    the lawers make them charge 35 dollars for the instructions and a sticker

  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 2,757

    34 Dollars is to pay the lawyers, 1 dollar is for the paperwork and stickers.

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • Joannie
    Joannie Member Posts: 99

    Good morning, folks. I work for Laars. We are asked frequently for conversion instructions and stickers. Either the contractor wants an "official" one from us, or an inspector does. When someone needs an instruction sheet, we offer to email a pdf, but still some people want a "real" one shipped. I know it seems like a very small thing, but there are real costs associated with selling these. Just like contractors have costs that people may not think about like insurance, training, employee benefits, stock, vehicle registration/maintenance, etc. We pay a vendor for these items, and pay people to order them, receive them, store them, pick them, pack them, ship them, etc.. No different than the process to get controls, gas valves and blowers, etc., in house and out to a job.

    Anyway…. just wanted you to hear my side of things. Have a great day, and thanks for all you do!

    pecmsgLarry WeingartenIntplm.
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 2,757

    Sound like bad logistics to me. The original sticker could simply state the factory wired voltage (probably already does) and have a check box for the check mark for the unit was modified to voltage. And the modifications instructions are put in the manual shipped with the unit.

    I guess that is not what the lawyers want and would put a lot of folks out of work.

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,458
    edited 1:17PM

    Just like the Elec duct heaters that Always get marked what size heater was installed.

    Or clearly marking what refrigerant is in the system.

  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 2,757
    edited 1:29PM

    Yup, change the wiring and just walk away, don't pay the $35.

    To me it is more likely the installer may mark a sticker than pay the $35 unless an inspector demands it. And having to order the modification kit may delay the installation or at least the commissioning. And once the installer learns what the $35 gets him will he do it again unless forced to ?

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,358

    Thank you, @Joannie , for that clear answer! The price quoted for assembling a change packet is actually quite reasonable — these things don't happen for free.

    There is also a reason for not including a variety of connection or other options in the original install manuals. I regret to say that they may not be read at all by many people — and worse, that they may be really confusing for people who lack basic knowledge (thermostats are even worse — when they say something like connect the red wire to this screw and the white to that one… and the wire colours aren't the "standard" one…). Having a specific and complete instruction package for a particular modification — and charging enough for it so that when the installer calls for help for a non-standard situation — isn't being petty.

    And last, as comment on us — the denizens of The Wall. I hope no one has ever figured out just how much free — and top quality — advice some of these folks are giving out here… it's staggering.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Larry WeingartenJoannie