Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

New Century House with Two Pipe Steam - Questions

Options
13»

Comments

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,136
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1839147#Comment_1839147

    i'm betting it is one of the radiators that has a new valve

  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 2,187

    New valve + failed trap, yes. I'll bet the composition gaskets on the sylphon valves have all failed as well making things depend on the traps.

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • TKPK
    TKPK Member Posts: 74
    edited January 31
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1838557#Comment_1838557

    one easy way I have found to “test” steam traps is to remove the cap and see if the radiator behaves differently. Traps fail open or closed. If the trap fails closed, air cannot vent and steam cannot enter. Removing the cap will let you determine if the problem is the trap or something else downstream.

    Even replacing the guts is expensive. I replaced 17 innards ~15 years ago on a then 85 year old system but threw them all in a box and kept them. I recently plumbed a takeoff on my main with a valve where I could install a trap and test it. 16 of the 17 elements that I replaced 15 years ago are good. Now they are spares.

    IMO, it is great to spend money where you need but not indiscriminately.

    One place I spent was the low pressure gauge. Impressive seeing these things run on a couple of inches of water pressure.

    Obviously, be careful with the steam but you will feel the radiator getting warm and hear and see the condensate long before the steam becomes dangerous.

    If the trap has failed open and the radiator doesn’t heat, the problem lies elsewhere. If the down stream side of the trap is steam hot it has failed open, or some other part of the system is back feeding steam on the return side.

    mattmia2dandub1960
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,136
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1839169#Comment_1839169

    that kinda comes from pros where the traps are cheaper than their time to sort out which are good and which are bad

    TKPK
  • Hedwig595
    Hedwig595 Member Posts: 22

    Hey everyone, apologies for the radio silence, and a big thank you for all of your helpful info. I FINALLY found some time to get the suspect traps open and I’m ordering some Tunstall replacements:

    Trap Types

    Replacement Capsule

    Hoffman 17C

    TFHF-1409

    Warren Webster 712HB

    TFWW-2515

    Barnes & Jones 134

    TBFJ-1007

    Barnes & Jones 1/2” Model C

    TFBJ-1748

    Thought I’d share a pic of the guts:

    Warren Webster 712HB

    IMG_8828.jpeg


    now while I’m waiting on the ordered capsules, would anyone have any idea what type of valve this is? It says Webster on the other side of the handle and I’m assuming there’s a pin that connects the top handle to the valve itself but that is missing.

    IMG_8826.jpeg

    Thanks again everyone!

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,136

    That is a vapor valve, it is a special metering type valve and either it can be set to only open a certain amount to match the edr of the radiator it is attached to or I think in warren/webster systems they may have had an orifice that matched the edr of the radiator.

    It may be a packless valve that uses a bellows instead of packing to seal the stem.

    It looks like the handle is broken off, looks like the bottom left had more attached to it that probably held it in place(some vapor valve used that part to index to a stop that limited how far the valve could open).

    Others will know more of the specifics of this particular valve, i am mostly just giving general vapor valve characteristics.

  • Hedwig595
    Hedwig595 Member Posts: 22

    Thanks @mattmia2 ! It doesn't look broken off to me (I'll get a few more pics) but either way I have some steel dowels on order to see if that can fix it.

    I was also wondering, is it okay to use copper anti-seize on the threaded tunstall capsules and the trap covers? I want to make sure I'm not eroding anythign with copper/brass/steel mixing.

  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 8,322

    You needn't worry too much,Hedwig. I like Megaloc or Teflon Paste on any threads. Very innocuous and will not react with anything. A few wraps of Blue Monster Teflon tape clockwise around the underside of the trap capsules makes a nice seal and enables easy removal in the years ahead.

    You should pat yourself on the back for taking this on.

    Mad Dog

    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
    PC7060
  • Hedwig595
    Hedwig595 Member Posts: 22

    Awesome, thanks @Mad Dog_2, I appreciate it. I'm excited to crank the system up and see what we get!

    I also got a few better pics of the vapor valve (and the new steel dowel pin I ordered!) as well:

    IMG_8937.jpeg IMG_8940.jpeg IMG_8938.jpeg IMG_8939.jpeg

    It very well could have broken off, but the bottom of the handle doesn't seem broken or rough. The dowel pin I ordered is sliiightly too small so there is still some play in the handle, but I was able (with a bit of force) to get it to turn, so all in all, progress.

    Mad Dog_2
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,358

    Keep working the valve. It will get freer with time…

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Hedwig595
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,136

    Oh, it was some sort of a tamper resistant valve with a separate spanner to turn it. Normally there is a handle attached to the valve.

    Hedwig595
  • dandub1960
    dandub1960 Member Posts: 18
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1839169#Comment_1839169

    Great idea about just open the trap (or just loosening to test during operation.

    I think you can also test the trap bellows in a double boiler on your kitchen stove.

    I've seen traps where the ball at the outlet a stuck in some white deposits. Doesn't take much to make then sticky, so bit of polishing away of that junk can restore operation.

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,963
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1865043#Comment_1865043

    That's called a "lock-shield" valve. And the part you're holding in the pic is the key.

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    PC7060Mad Dog_2Hedwig595

Categories