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60 PPM outside of "snowman" boiler

Dsisson
Dsisson Member Posts: 106
in Carbon Monoxide Awareness

Folks,

My tenant sent a notice from RI Energy - unbeknownst to me, they came to the property to inspect the gas meters and decided to test the old "snowman" boiler as well. Since it's AUGUST, the thing has been off for months. They shut off gas to the boiler, and the card states that they measured 60 PPM on the outside of the boiler. I assume they put the tester up to the little vents that are on the side of the boiler. This is an antique snowman boiler (steam) that is working fine otherwise. I am now wondering what to do:

  1. Obviously I could replace the boiler, however I don't want to if not necessary
  2. Get someone to come and re-test, see if it can be fixed?
  3. Is 60 PPM actually a problem?
  4. Could the fact that it was a cold start affect the PPM?

Thanks much. If I have to replace it, summer is obviously better than winter!

Comments

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,847

    How long did they let it run? Some appliances can spill until they heat the vent. If it had been running a few minutes then you need to find someone that understands combustion to adjust it so it drafts properly.

    Is it in an open space where it can get enough air for combustion and draft?

  • Dsisson
    Dsisson Member Posts: 106

    I have no idea how long they ran it or anything. Since it takes a LONG time to actually come up to pressure, especially when it's cold, I would assume they ran it for no more than 10 minutes. It is in an open space and the basement isn't particularly tight, so I assume it breathes OK.

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,387

    bottom line they shut it down and you can’t run it until it’s fixed.
    call your heating contractor but with a snowman good luck.
    Winter is just around the corner start looking for a replacement

    Mad Dog_2
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,872

    I might ask the Gas Company to perform the test while you are present. Since the man taking the test does not need to pay thousands of dollars for a replacement boiler, then he has no skin in the game. In the technicians opinion, you are probably some cheapskate landlord who does not really care about your tenant and are just looking for the rent check to be there on time. By showing interest in that testing procedure and being present for the test, and observing where the test sampler was located, you may find that the system is operating just fine.

    And how ofter does the tenant put his nose within a few inches of the sampler location? I might test the air a foot away from that location, that is more likely a better sample of what is actually in the air the tenant is breathing. 60 PPM of carbon monoxide exposure over an 8 hour period is over double the exposure recommended by OSHA for the workplace. If there is actually 60 PPM measured at the bedroom area, and you can attribute it to the snowman boiler, then it is time for it to go. If you get 60 PPM at the fire door vent opening after only 1 minute of operation and you can illustrate that the chimney is not properly drafting until the chimney gets up to operating temperature after 15 minutes of operation, then your gas company tech needs to be schooled on the way the combustion process works on older equipment.

    I would do nothing and call the gas supplier and tell then the problem is corrected and request another test be preformed while you are present. After the boiler is operated for 15 minutes the test can be performed at a location at least 1 foot away from the boiler exterior. I will guarantee you there will be less than 15 PPM measured by any meter under those conditions, if the system is operating properly.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    SlamDunk
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,387

    I respectfully disagree.
    yes call them back but have your service provider there as well.
    the gas company is not going to yield to a landlord.

    HydronicMike
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 18,373

    I doubt the gas utility will even come back. If they red tagged it and shut the gas off they will require you to have your own contractor repair or replace.

    I question if they even ran the boiler the OPs post says "60PPM outside the boiler" we don't know if the boiler was firing or not.

  • Dsisson
    Dsisson Member Posts: 106
    edited August 26

    Thank you everyone for advice. I don't know what the gas company did, so naturally I'm a bit suspicious about the whole thing. It isn't locked out, just manually turned off (just turned off the valve to the boiler, not gas service to the whole house), and more of a warning than a red tag. I'll get a company to come and test it with me present and then I'll decide what to do.

  • captainco
    captainco Member Posts: 817

    gA

    Gas companies are #1 on my CO ignorance list. A fart could make his meter read 60ppm. The test must be done in the flue ahead o dilution air. Any other test is useless.

    PC7060Mad Dog_2EdTheHeaterMan
  • Dsisson
    Dsisson Member Posts: 106
    edited August 27

    UPDATE! I had a pro come out today. He didn't want to touch the boiler (because it's a serious antique) but I convinced him to light it and do a combustion test. He found 0-3 PPM on the outside of the boiler, and 30-50 PPM on the inside / flue. He blessed it to keep operating and suggested that I replace it due to age.

    BTW, the gas co didn't even tag the boiler, just shut it off. I have no idea how they managed to get 60 PPM on the outside.

    image.png
  • Dsisson
    Dsisson Member Posts: 106
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 18,373

    Well things could be done to improve things.

    Probably a new Carlin gas burner if it is worth the conversion.

    Your stack temp is high 705deg would be 400 with a new boiler and probably could get it down to 5-600 with a new burner

    Your draft is way too high sucking heat up the chimney -.09. It should be-.02 over the fire and maybe -.04 or .05 in the flue.

    And the burner is not mixing gas and air to burn efficiently. Your Co2 should be 8 not 4.8

    The burner is the combustion numbers and turns the fuel to heat.

    The boilers job is to absorb the heat and transfer the heat to the water

    Neither one of those is great right now but IMHO is is more of a burner issue than a boiler issue.

    ChrisJ
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,847

    It may be possible to clean and adjust the current burner if you can find someone that knows how. Most of the draft control is built in to the design of a modern atmospheric gas boiler. With a conversion burner in a coal boiler the tech has to control the draft.

  • Dsisson
    Dsisson Member Posts: 106
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1863349#Comment_1863349

    Thank you. The next step would be to replace the whole thing with a modern boiler. This is a (probably) 100+ year old snowman boiler. I'll probably work towards doing a summer replacement next year.

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