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heat pump manufacturers

Wouldn't it make sense to have a built in pressure gauge on the high and low side. Located inside the outside jacket just before the king valves? It would reduce the odds of people attaching gauges to troubleshoot issues. Every time gauges are attached there is a loss of refrigerant.

clammy

Comments

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 18,555

    What make sense and what they do is two different things. Gauges cost money x the # of units they sell makes it a no-go. Everything they do, cheap overseas capacitors, microchannel coils and 1 pole contactors that should be 2 pole and no pressure switches that could save a compressor on refrigerant loss……they won't put gauges on. They have a planned life cycle.

    IronmanEdTheHeaterManclammy
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,164

    or you could just make them not leak…

    Intplm.IronmanEdTheHeaterMan
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 7,001

    Try these.

    Screenshot_20250816_062934_Samsung Internet.jpg

    Less loss than a fly fart.

    EdTheHeaterMan
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,473

    So would Serge protection, high low voltage monitors, high low safety's, on and on. Who's paying for all that.

    EdTheHeaterMan
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 18,555

    No, we can't have pressure switches because we now have to pay for refrigerant leak sensors for refrigerant that will not sustain a fire if you hold a torch on it and pay for ECM motors and other crap that costs a bunch to replace.

    EdTheHeaterManclammy
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 11,085

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    mattmia2GGross
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 18,555

    Next thing that will happen is homeowners' insurance rates will rise if you have R-32 or R454B due to flammability issues.

    Insurance companies never loose

    clammy
  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 1,617

    just wait until you find out that some brands are using sensors that have a shelf life and will completely shutdown heating and cooling for your system once the shelf life has exceeded, and these style also are designed in such a way there is a good chance they will need to be replaced after detecting a leak, or the shelf life for the sensor will be greatly reduced. You get to pay for that as well!

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 18,555

    What will happen is they will be disconnected and bypassed. Just silly. They say the refrigerant will not sustain a fire even if a torch is put on it.

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,916
    edited August 18

    I don't know….

    I just fixed my dad's 2006 R22 unit that ended up with the fan wires melting together because a mouse built a house in the electrical cabinet. That unit doesn't even have pressure switches, just a contactor and a capacitor. That's the first time it's been touched since 2006.

    Maybe adding stuff is the wrong direction because it sure seems like 1980s - early 2000s equipment went an awful long time without being touched.

    It also seems like his condenser doesn't get dirty anywhere near as fast as the newer higher seer ones, but that could just be the conditions etc.

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,164

    My ~2001 lennox has high and low pressure switches, they just screw on to extra access valves. It keeps it from melting down if one of the fan motors stops or it leaks. It doesn't really affect reliability. Other than cleaning, a capacitor, and a furnace blower motor it has needed no other work. I would like to figure out what to do about the plastic coated grill that the plastic is peeling off of.

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,473
    edited August 18

    I’ve got 40+ year old Traulsen’s still running.
    Today’s the cabinet falls apart within 10 years

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,916
    edited August 18

    And yet, the one I just fixed didn't melt down without any pressure switches.

    The compressor's overload trips, and it takes longer and longer to reset every time it happens. Best guess on my dad's part was it was probably attempting to run without the condenser fan for a good 3 hours before he realized there was an issue.

    Absolutely zero damage to the compressor, best I can tell.

    I thought the pressure switches were an absolute must as well, until this happened. Now I'm kinda confused why they're needed? In fact, would a high side pressure switch actually make the compressor cycle more than it's own internal overload tripping (with a dead condenser fan)? On my unit I'm sure the circuit board would lock it out with an error, so that's good. But there's plenty of arguments against circuit boards in outdoor units as well and a plain contactor isn't going to lock anything out.

    Obviously the low pressure switch serves a different purpose. I hear running with very high superheat is really hard on a compressor.

    I feel it's best to ask the guys like @pecmsg and @EBEBRATT-Ed and @Harvey Ramer who work with this stuff all day every day what they've seen. We can guess all day long, but it's hard to beat real world experience.

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,473
    edited August 19

    in the 80’s people developed what I call the Walmart mentality. Cheap, Cheaper, Cheapest. Add to that Gouberment energy regulations and the end consumer is screwed.
    again the installing / service contractor is the most important name to consider.
    I will not install a mini split without an ICM493 surge voltage monitor. Cheap insurance today

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,164

    The overload will shut the compressor down with inadequate condenser airflow but it will take longer than a pressure switch, the compressor will have to get hot in order for it to happen. The pressure rise will happen before the compressor starts getting excessively hot. Also the overload is usually internal so if it goes unnoticed for days or weeks it can burn out the contacts on the overload and the only way to fix that is to replace the compressor. It also may get hot enough to decompose a bit of the oil and/or refrigerant every time it trips.

    My lennox has pressure switches and a time delay so it won't cut back in after the pressure switch cuts it out until the time delay elapses.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 18,555

    I don't like tripping overload. To me they are for catastrophe or fire protection LOL. Tripping can go unnoticed and you loose a compressor. I think you only get just so many trips before you burn up.High head could be manual reset pressure control. Low pressure control can be problematic starting in cooler weather. Some units used to use a time delay to bypass the lo pressure control until the unit got time to start up and stabilize. Carrier (and maybe others) used to use a pressure switch on the LL for use as a (loss of charge).

    @ChrisJ one of the very knowledgeable guys that ran a local supply house used to say "high superheat will cause a compressor a slow painful death"

    So now that I preached all this stuff my own house had a 2 1/2 ton Nortek (Frigidaire) condenser that was 34 years old when I sold my house. Never added R-22, never had any leaks, never changed a compressor, fan motor or contactor or capacitor in the outdoor unit and never changed the fan motor or cap in the indoor AHU.

    Just cleaned the evap coil and condenser coils a few times.

    But I always kept my eyes and ears open listening to how it started and how it sounded.

    And no pressure switches LOL

  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,281

    Every compressor has a safe playing field. Installing guardrails (pressure switches) is a good thing. They are relatively trouble free and frequently alert to an issue before equipment damage occurs. They also protect the consumer from knuckleheads who fix every problem with a Freon jug.

    That being said; I have no problem installing a straight AC without pressure switches on a tight budget.

    I think the most insane thing a lot of manufacturers are doing, is using R454B when R32 is a readily availible option. The insanity blows my mind actually. 454B is a blend with a substantial glide. R32 is a straight blend and more efficient.

    EBEBRATT-Ed
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 18,555

    @Harvey Ramer

    I am retired so out of the loop but former co-workers have told me R-454B $$$ is insane. I think Goodman and Daiken are the only ones on R-32.