Trane Air Handler Fan Constantly Running
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I won’t be able to check amps at startup, but when I get home this afternoon I’ll check for voltage at the contactor and test the capacitor. I’m really hoping it’s just the capacitor as that would be an easier fix 🤞🏼
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@EdTheHeaterMan , all we carry is the Turbo 200, 200X, and Mini. There's too many to stock individuals. The big ones don't typically fit the original strap, so I always have a roll of vinyl Band Iron, or as some call, Plumbers Roll.
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I think failed capacitors are one of the most common service calls there is now. Didn't used to be that way. Back in the day you very seldom found bad caps. The meters we had back then wouldn't check caps. You could use an analog ohmmeter but it was not a definitive test. Didn't have digital meters back then. If you had problems the service instructions would say "Substitute a known to be good capacitor"
They had a meter called an "Annie" which we had 1 in our shop. I don't know who "Annie" was but she new how to check capacitors. 🤣
They used to be made in uSA, GE, Sprague etc and they lasted and were twice the size of the ones you buy know and were filled with good old PCBs
Maybe that's why they worked
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you can test them with an ammeter, voltmeter, and light bulb. put it in series with the light bulb, measure the current through and voltage across the capacitor and calculate capacitance the same way you do with it connected to the compressor or blower motor.
they are smaller because they use more effective insulators that can be thinner and have the same dielectric strength. i remember learning about the starting/run caps in the 80's when my grandfather was telling us about how he had to replace the cap in his condenser. maybe they didn't fail as often but they were usually what failed.
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Hmm ok so it looks like the original cap failed and was replaced at least once before. Look like they put in an Amrad Turbo before, surprised that it may have failed based on what I've read.
There's also what appears to be a second capacitor inside too. Should I disconnect both and test them both with a meter?
I believe this unit was installed back in 2017.
EVCON Air Conditioning Condensing Unit 14 SEER, Single-Phase, 4 Ton, R407C
Model #: GAW14L48C23S
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Ok I'll have to do some reading on replacement caps/hard starts/run capacitor vs start capacitor since I'm not too familiar on the topic. I'll work on tracing out the wiring in the meantime. Thanks!
I've attached a screenshot from the unit's manual.
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Ok so it looks like the Turbo is configured for 55 uF (hermetic) + 5 uF (fan).
The 55 uF —> thin brown wire (hermetic) → compressor motor (S)
55 uF also —> blue wire —> relay —> blue wire —> Common (Turbo)
Common (Turbo) also —> red wire —> T2 (Contactor) —> 2 red wires —> compressor motor R + fan motor R
Relay —> white wire —> bakelite capacitor —> white wire —> Relay
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or maybe it is just a replacement for the compressor and fan run caps as i look at it more. i thought i saw 2 caps in bakelite cans but maybe what i though was a cap is just the contactor. buying caps that are the needed values is a lot less expensive than the universal cap, just buy the made in mexico like the titan hd
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So is the Turbo capacitor likely the culprit based on what I described earlier or should I remove and confirm with meter?
If it is faulty, then would this be the appropriate replacement?
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could be the start cap too. i'd probably replace both. or the potential relay although those usually don't go bad very often under normal conditions.
does the compressor hum but not start with the overload reset?
if the voltage of the universal cap is the same or less than the titan cap then that should be the right cap.
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Hmm it was hard to tell if the compressor was humming with the condenser fan running. I just pulled both capacitors from the system.
There was a dead spider near one of the terminals near the start capacitor, not sure if that would cause an issue.
However, checking both capacitors with the meter shows acceptable capacitance for both.
The Turbo has capacitance readings of:
4.6 uF @ 5 uF
2.5 uF @ 2.5 uF
54 uF @ 55 uF
5.6 uF @ 5 uFThe Kickstarter has capacitance reading of:
324 uF @ 270-324 uF
So it seems that the capacitors are functioning. What's the best way to test the 521 relay?
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Is that Turbo 200 dated? That has a 5 year warranty!!! You may not have a bad capacitor. Here is a great video on how to check the capacitor while it is operating
Read the Amps thru the CAP to the start winding of the motor or compressor Amps x 2652 = X
Read the Volts across Cap and divide X ÷ volts across the CAP
That will be the Microfarad (uf or mfd) reading of that Capacitor. I started to include that actual test on all the maintenance calls for every PSC motor and compressor. My Capacitor sales went up by about 18% and there were less "NO AC" service calls from agreement (or club member) equipment. Found the bad ones before they caused a problem. Replaced them with the "Better" 5 year warranty Turbo 200 and increased customer satisfaction and parts sales on maintenance calls. WIN WIN WIN for everyone. The company, the service tech, and the customer all win!
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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No one wrote down the install date on the capacitor, but the manufacturer date states 10/11/2021
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@loamyroots11 said: "Hmm it was hard to tell if the compressor was humming with the condenser fan running. I just pulled both capacitors from the system."
I have had the same problem… to rule out or confirm the compressor hummmm, I would usually disconnect the fan motor to eliminate that noise. the you can hear the compressor start or just hummm.
Of course, I can't let this one go. Many times when a control or compressor humms… it is because they forgot the words. If you put the appropriate sheet music on the floor near the compressor, the humming may stop.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Should I place both capacitors back before checking the resistance of the compressor windings or does it not make a difference?
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doesn't matter because the conductivity of the caps at dc is much less than a good winding but better if they're disconnected
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Checking resistance (measuring Ohms) is always done with the item you're testing disconnected form anything else. If you have other stuff connected you will be measuring the resistance of all the connected items based on how they are connected (Parallel or in Series), and you don't want to know anything about the other stuff when measuring the windings of a compressor. You just want to measure the compressor motor's windings only
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Hmm does it make sense that the resistance is zero?
I opened up the zip-ties and cleaned up the rat's nest - no obvious burnt wires that I noticed.
I tested the resistance across the black wire on T1 [C] and the red wire [R] and got 0 or 1 ohm of resistance.
The resistance across black [C] and brown [S] was also 0 of resistance. However, if I tested the resistance using the other black [C] Wie and the other brown [S] (I believe of the fan), the resistance was around 46 ohms.
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If i were to guess what the dc resistance of a ~5 hp induction motor was i would guess a couple ohms, but i wouldn't be surprised of it was close to 0.
That means something is going to happen when you connect power to it, either it will run, it will just hum, or it will trip the overload or the breaker. possibly more than one thing.
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It should be 0 or near resistance between Red to Black, Red to Brown, Black to Brown. Now check each lead to ground. If its not grounded, then...
Put everything back the way it originally was . Start the condenser for a minute. Disconnect power and immediately check the windings again. You'll likely find them open. Do you have an ammeter with a min/max function to check amps on start? Is it near LRA Locked Rotor Amps?
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Checking each lead to ground reads as Open Loop.
I put everything back together, started the condenser for a minute, disconnected the compressor, and received similar readings of the compressor windings (just slightly higher, ~1-4 ohms).
I was able to borrow an ammeter today. Upon startup, the black (common) wire to the compressor registered a max of 33 amps and after running for awhile was reporting 9 amps.
The label on the unit says LRA of 104 and RLA of 19.8, however I'm guessing with the hard start kit in place it's lowering both amperages?
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