Old house heating: Steam radiators or forced air?
Comments
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I don't see anyone saying "forced hot air is amazing!" so if steam is so overrated, where is the"correct" view?
There is some proof in popular opinion of the experienced. Are you going to disregard five mechanics who tell you the Jeep Cherokee with a straight six four liter engine was a great vehicle, simply because they aren't made anymore?
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@RascalOrnery my point is that is can be an echo chamber. We have valuable opinions here, but they’re biased. That’s fine but when someone asks for help we should acknowledge that!
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builders are building for the developer, not the homeowner. lowest cost is the only thing driving decisions.
no one is going to install new steam except a very few in the trade. there are many hydronic options that give the same benefits that are easier to install and control. It makes sense in most cases to modify and repair an existing steam system but there are very few reasons to install a new steam system.
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I get it, you're saying because many people here like steam, it might be misread that more people use it than other methods and hence promote a good but possibly fading method as current and highly used and supported method.
For what it's worth, I don't have steam.
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I'll second that- it's why Federal Pacific sold so many breaker panels. Never mind that they were extremely undependable.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
They can certainly heat a house though.....
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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But the house won't be there when the "heat" goes off!
For those not familiar, see:
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting
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Homeowners during different time have plenty of money to spend.
We always see posts on here about pool heaters…..that means they have a pool which is nice but not a necessity.
Heating systems to the average HO is not pretty. Its not like a new car, a pool, a deck, new golf clubs or anything else you can show off to your friends.
heating systems are a necessity but are looked on as a nuisence. People think nothing of plunking down 40k for a new vehicle every few years but heaven forbid the contractor wants 20k for a new boiler that will last 20 years.
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40K
You haven’t bought a new vehicle in a while!
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I wish you were joking but you're not.
A decent truck is $50-70k now.
Personally I'd buy a used M939 long before id consider a new pickup.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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builders are building for the developer, not the homeowner. lowest cost is the only thing driving decisions.
see I think this attitude is the problem! Construction isn’t just the lowest bid. A technology interested in being around in 100 years should work harder to figure this out
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Y'all will have to pry my 1970 C10 stepside longbed out of my cold dead hands!
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England1 -
Yeah.
Don't forget I spent the first 17 years of my life in a 1970 c20 and I know all about them.
As far as longevity in normal use, thumbs down. Especially in salt.
A C10 was a very light duty truck.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Not really light… I got the heavy duty springs (1500 pound payload, 8,000 pound trailer) when I bought it. And that straight six isn't sexy, but it will pull anything you can get enough traction for.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
That's really light compared to the 20. A 1500 pound payload is basically a minivan.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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This. HW has cornered that market. People with $$$ love their radiant.
The enhanced durability and simplicity of steam isn't a selling point to those folks.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
Well, along with @Dan Foley and others, I've installed steam from scratch. So there's that…………
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting1 -
But it's an honest 1500 pounds… I know, I've had that much on it routinely (25 70 pound hay bales). And it will do it all day. And has for 55 years now. For really heavy stuff I also have a K2500… only 30 years old now.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England1 -
So, what kind of customer orders a steam system today? I'm interested in what points made it attractive to them.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
Bump. I'm really curious about this.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
In one case, someone who was renovating an old house and hated forced-air. In others, we extended steam systems into additions, and we have two such projects in the pipeline now.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting1 -
I’ll bet a very small percentage of the overall jobs!
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Got a 2022 Hyundai Santa FE fairly loaded I think it was around 35K 3 years ago. I am well aware of new truck prices. I drive a 2007 F-150 5 speed 6cyl.
The engine crapped out at 145K. I paid only $6000 for it 9 years ago it came up from TN so the body will last me out. I looked at the prices of new trucks, excise tax and insurance and I only drive it 6k/ year so it was a no brainer to put a boneyard engine in it. My mechanic agreed because the rest of the truck is in good shape
Used truck prices are even more horrifying. 20K won't get you much unless the buyer thinks that 150-200K is ok for mileage and you still have high insurance and excise tax
Besides I will never give up my 5 speed. They don't exist in new trucks.
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The OP should prioritize his needs.
There are advantages to steam heat and advantages to hot air.
By determining what is most important to him and to his wife, we can help him choose the best heating system to fulfill those wishes.
Comfort? Floor space? Personal aesthetics? Installation costs? Headroom and space utilization? Operating cost? Return on investment? Silent operation? Reliability? Equipment lifespan? Floor space? Temperature consistency? Desirability to future owners? Disruption of lifestyle/architectural elements from installation? A place to dry wet gloves?
Consider what's important to you , and the answer will be simple.
This is engineering.
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IMO the ultimate is large volume, low velocity old school made on site ductwork for AC only (high supplies/low returns) and 2 pipe steam for heat, with CI hydronic a reasonable second.
YMMV.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
I did supplies and returns in the ceiling on my cooling only system and it works really really well. High returns means pulling warm air into the system. Obviously you need to keep the supplies far enough from the returns.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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the low return kind of seems like a bad idea, pulls the cool air in to the system. maybe good for circulation but the refrigeration system is going to be more effective with the warmer air so it can get a higher delta t. the lower limit is sort of set by the freezing point of the condensate.
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