turbo torch tip sizes

Just curious how many, if any, tend to use the tip sizes recommended by this chart.
It seems like the recommended tip sizes tend to be undersized, especially if you're next to a valve etc. I'm using an A-14 to do 7/8 OD and I still feel like I'd like more heat. I used the 14 on some 3/8 and obviously I had to be fast, but the recommended A-5 seems a bit light even for that, the 8 seems better seems more appropriate.
Thoughts?
I've been eyeing up the 32 for a while….
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
Comments
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I never used to look at the recommended sizes.
I used turbo torch tips and have a pile of them, Even used the turbo torch propane we owned a few of those at the shop I worked at propane being much cheaper than acetelyne.
Sometimes we were soldering or brazing indoors sometimes outdoors in the winter on a roof with wind. Sometimes you had a valve near where you were brazing that you couldn't overheat. Sometimes you need to solder fast or slow. All those things affect tip size.
I prefer the old prestolite tips for smaller stuff as I don't like the "turbo noise" and prefer oxy-aceteylene for brazing but you can't always justify setting that up to do a couple of joints
Just my rant.
I am probably a slow solder, I prefer to use a smaller tip and take more time but there are times this won't work and you have to speed up. It's all a judgement call in the field. Maybe fabricating in a factory is different.
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For most residential & lite commercial plumbing the Turbotorch A-3 covers a wide range of pipe sizes. The A-2 (baby tip) is nice for super tight spots & close to wood joints. I own one Big Boy that I can soft Solder up to 4" copper with. Couldn't even tell you the Tip size, but its as thick & long as a Cigar...The A-32......Mad Dog
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Smaller is better so you don't over-heat and burn the flux. I find the Turbo torches, with the swirl combustion, to noisy for my old ears :) I have a straight acetylene torch, probably 50 years old! . Slower but quieter.
I have a Goss brand on a small Mapp gas cylinder for quick repairs where I don't want to drag the acetylene tank along. It seems to be quieter than the Turbo brand?
A-32?? Silver soldering 3 & 4"? :)
An oxy-actelene with a rosebud tip for the big, hot work.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1 -
50 years hot rod? That's only 1975! My dad's from that era looked much newer. Is that a bakelite handle??
NJ Steam Homeowner.
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I have a A32 , two really .. First one I burnt out , it drains a B tank faster than you think. I had to finish the job and bought another. I ended up getting an exchanged later .
Repairs and brazing you need a turbo , For cleaner sweats the I prefer the non turbo . I find I can direct the flow better .
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I should have specified, I'm talking for brazing using 15% silphos rod. So, no flux to burn @hot_rod
I just did a bunch of 1 1/8" OD and 7/8" OD joints using the A13 but it's very slow if I'm close to something I have a wet rag wrapped around like a TXV or service valves. If I'm out in the middle of no where, then it works beautifully. I can even go down to the A-8 for 7/8 OD but not next to something with a wet rag.
For soft soldering I don't think I've ever used over the A-3.
I'm trying to figure out if the wet rag acting as a heat sink is the issue and I really need a hotter torch, of if I'm the issue and I just need to do more.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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if you use thoseTurbo or any swirl tip, you want to run the full speed. When you choke them down, notice the tip gets red hot. That is what causes that swirl plate inside to burn out
As @Big Ed_4 mentioned, those large tips really go through the gas quickly
Have a spare tank so you don’t end up with a 1/2 soldered joint
I found the heat paste or heat clay works much better than a wet rag
I've used the Hot Dam product, use it over and over
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream2 -
Better in that way?
And how long is it's shelf life? I have looked at the stuff but just assumed it would be bad by the next time I needed it
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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I use the Turbotorch A 32 to melt out large Cast Iron hubs full of lead. Also use it to heat up a pouring ladle if I only have one lead joint to pour. Ive used Rosebuds with oxy-acetylene for silver brazing 4" Copper up to 12" Copper. 3" copper & below I just use acetylene....much less cumbersome to drag around. Mad Dog
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I like oxy for brazing as well but if you don't have too many joints you can get away with the turbo. Not worth hauling tanks up a ladder to an RTU for a few joints if you can avoid it.
I usually use a wet rag instead of the heat block but have use both.
Agree with @hot_rod hate the turbo screaming. Prestolite tips (same as Goss)if I can.
I used to soak the wet rag but it is a heat sink but sometimes you have to protect a valve or TXV. For regular fittings nearby you don't want to melt out a rag and a spray bottle you only have to keep the normal fittings a few degrees cooler.
The bigger the heat sink the more heat you need so it's a balancing act. You keep tha TXV cold then it takes longer to heat and risks damage.
I installed a few units for Trane and they were doing the start-up. They were split systems. They had ball valves on the condensing unit and it was 404A.
One ball valve the side of it was up against a metal partition.
I told Trane Service Tech "there is no possibility of brazing this thing without cooking the valve and on the other side of the valve was the factory charge" You couldn't get the torch tip around the valve and it was 1 3/8OD
I said" we either take the charge out or I am going to Stay Brite it unless we take a sawzall to the partition which would be a hack job"
He looked at it and agreed. Gotta pick your battles.
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ISTR that Stay Bright has a tensile strength slightly above that of 15%, or at the very least comparable.
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I bought some Stay Bright and the two fluxes they have for it. My problem is how do I guarantee none of that flux gets into the system?
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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You're not.. You can wash interior of piping afterwards with caustic soda. Youre talking Refrigerant lines right? Not Medical gas brazing? Mad Dog
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Like we used to say, "that's what the filter drier is for". Don't need much flux and most runs outside. Stabrite #8 flows better. Regular StayBrite and 95/5 both go from solid to liquid real fast making them more difficult to work with never liked either one.
According to JW Harris a Staybrite joint is stronger than brazing because the copper does not get annealed.
No nitrogen needed for StayBrite
I still prefer brazing but there is a place for both
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My favorite Soft Solder is Taramet Sterling…vg pasty range. Silvabrite is vg too. Mad Dog
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That's certainly easier but I thought you absolutely had to flux both male and female when soft soldering?
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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This is my current setup.
The last time I looked I don't think anyone sold and oxyacetylene torch for use with a B tank? I think that's what kept stopping me.
I really don't want a bigger tank and I have 2 B tanks so I've got a backup.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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I worked at an HVAC shop for a year. The techs that preferred a welding torch had these small Oxy Actylene torch kits. Always extra tanks in the truck.
I like the welding torch with a small tip for T-Drill silver soldering. As @EBEBRATT-Ed mentioned you don't soften as much tube with a pinpoint flame.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1 -
Have you ever used oxy propane?
We use an oxy propane torch at the shop for cutting steel but I don't think we have anything small enough to braze with.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Yes refrigeration.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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weren't cfc systems a lot more tolerant of this than modern systems?
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To tell you the truth I hate the fear of using the torch . I have been dam lucky looking back.
I bit the Bullet …I still carry my touches but I mostly pro-press now…
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In Ye Olden Days, Dad used oxypropane at the scrapyard. He said it was the same as oxyacetylene, just a little slower heating up. I'd have to imagine that it'd work fine for silphos.
I use a kit like the one @hot_rod showed above (except with a nice metal carrier and a replacement O₂ regulator from when I was going up the roof ladder a smidge too fast…), IIRC it comes with a #1 & #2 tip. Forget which one I use, they're about the same to me. For larger sizes I have a rosebud or a . I had to use a B tank with a #32 tip once, to unsolder a 2⅛ king valve, it was like 4-5 lbs of brass. Even with that, I had to get pissed at it before it came loose!
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For a time back in the 70s my old boss switched our big oxy acetylene rig to oxygen and Mapp gas as the welding supply house talked him into it. The Mapp which is just revved up propane was ok but I found it didn't cut rusty steel as good as oxy acetylene…or maybe at that time I just didn't cut so well but we went back to acetylene.
Acetylene is expensive now so Mapp and propane are good alternatives. Propane and Mapp hold a lot more gas in the cylinder than acetylene and the tanks are lighter. Especially if you get an aluminum propane cyl. I used to use my gas grill cylinder but it was too heavy to lug around but propane is grate for soft solder you just have to use a larger tip.
I usually use Silvabrite I don't think there is any difference between that and Staybrite #8.
Never got used to 95/5 always hated it.
You can get adapters to put a regulator on any size tank you want. MC-B or B-MC
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