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Moving radiator closer to wall

nickr
nickr Member Posts: 44

I’m having built-in bench seating installed around a one pipe steam radiator. To make it work I’ve got to move the radiator a little closer to the wall. (Pics below)

some questions:

  • how close is too close to drywall when it comes to steam radiators?
  • should I attach a metal sheet or some other reflective surface to reflect heat? If so, what material is recommended?
  • any recommendations on piping? (I know pitch is paramount.)

Comments

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,398

    Pitch is not paramount. Anything close to level in either direction is fine.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,771
    edited March 5

    What's your concern…..Fire? Not going to happen. Now the heat output will drop the wall cavity will go up.

    I don't know what 1 1/2" is going to do, what are you hoping to gain?

    Look into a cast iron baseboard radiator.

    Intplm.
  • nickr
    nickr Member Posts: 44

    need to nudge it back so that it fits within the bench cavity.

    I’d prefer to keep the same radiator rather than buy and fit something else. This one has been buried in cabinetry without much top/bottom outlet for airflow; the new design allows for that so I’m not worried about output.

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 25,702

    I presume that for some very good reason you can't fit the enclosure to the radiator, rather than the other way around.

    Not that any of the problems you cite are problems — you can put the radiator touching the drywall and it will be OK. What I'm wondering about is how you propose to modify the piping to move the radiator. Unless you can extend or move the runout below the floor there, I can't see how to do it.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • nickr
    nickr Member Posts: 44

    can’t a short extension (with a couple of turns) just run between the radiator and the valve?

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,771

    As long as you DON'T trap water yes.

    Thats a lot of work for a little gain.

    ethicalpaul
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,456

    Yes what you want to do is fine. But do what @Jamie Hall says above and pipe the radiator from below if it can be accessed there. If not, and since are are doing some carpentry anyway, pull up some of the floor and pipe it from there.

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,398

    pecmsg speaks true—the piping work you do is much more important the radiator pitch. But it's all doable. Good luck!

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • nickr
    nickr Member Posts: 44

    So keeping the riser where it is and just adding pipe between the valve and the radiator won’t work?

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,398
    edited March 5

    It's just not great. There is a chance for creating a water trap and it looks like **** with a lot more joints to leak

    Edit: haha I only said H E double hockey sticks 🤣

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 25,702

    No. The valve is connected to the radiator spud with a union — and that is a matched pair. The one half of the union is part of the valve body, and the other half is one end of the spud threaded into the radiator.

    Now you might be able to get the spud out of the radiator and thread a pipe in there, and then a 45 and thread the spud into that 45. Then again, you might not. Spuds aren't all that easy to remove from old radiators…

    Or you might take the spud out and the valve off, and get a new valve and its matching union connection and do the same sort of thing, only with new hardware.

    Bottom line: in order of relative difficulty. Easiest thing to do is redesign the bench so that the radiator fits. Second, extend the runout under the floor and come up with a new hole to meet the new radiator location. Third, monkey around with the spud and radiator valve and come up with a new connection.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    ethicalpauldelcrossv
  • RTW
    RTW Member Posts: 197

    If this is a mud room, another option is pivoting the radiator to the right until its perpendicular to the window wall. That should provide all the space for built -in seating in center and left of window, just sayin

    All the best,

    RTW

  • nickr
    nickr Member Posts: 44

    Got it. Very helpful all. The runout is accessible from below so I’ll try to go that route.

    ethicalpaulIntplm.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,456

    You can depending on your design of the bench I guess. But, if you turn the radiator valves discharge toward the wall you will lose the connection between the valve and the radiator spud. At that point you will need a new valve and some pipe fittings.

    From your picture I can see you would need a street ninety? and a nipple at the appropriate length. Doing it this way might make the radiator look off center. The other way that I mentioned would allow for the radiator to be pushed back toward the wall and remain centered.

    You being physically there would know what is the best way.

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,398

    You're going to be happy you did I think. While you're down there make sure the pitch of the horizontal section of the runout under the floor is away from the radiator. THAT pitch is paramount

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    Intplm.pecmsg
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,771

    Then again id consider cast iron baseboard. Now you've got all the room you need.

    PC7060
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 11,938

    Depending on how much space you have on the riser you could replace it with 2 45's and some nipples to offset it closer to the wall. You may not have enough access to do that because the end of that runout probably is above the foundation.

  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,682

    If you only need an inch-and-a-half, notch out the floor and see if you have enough play in the piping to horse it over. You may have to cut or relocate some pipe straps below, but usually you can get an inch or two without changing the pipes. Just don't change any pitch or create any dips in piping that can trap water.

  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,578
    edited March 6

    nope, the valve is part of a integrated assemble with the union than connects to radiator. You can remove the valve and replace with a straight through radiator valve with new spud. Add a 90 at the pipe then a street 45 and finally a short nipple to valve.
    make sure you maintain the runout in the pipe.

    Or the short version; what @Intplm. said.

  • RTW
    RTW Member Posts: 197

    As an aside shown in photos, why is there not a vent on the radiator on the opposite side from the valve? Secondarily, with all the water damage seen on floor, that valve / connection must have been leaking like a sieve and may need maintenance; and should be addressed when radiator is relocated

    Just some observations not yet brought up, but obvious

    Regards,

    RTW

    Intplm.delcrossv
  • random12345
    random12345 Member Posts: 503

    Aluminum foil over a thin piece of sheet metal (or even wood or cardboard) the same dimensions as the radiator can be placed against the wall and will reflect nearly 100% of the infrared light emitted by the radiator back into the room. I think about 80-90% of the heat delivered by the rad is through convection, so only a small portion is infrared, but at least it won't be wasted through your walls.

    Intplm.
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,961
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
    random12345
  • random12345
    random12345 Member Posts: 503

    Just asked ChatGPT this question, and it told me 31-41% is radiant off the bat. Radiant is calculated using Stefan-Boltzmann law, and Newton's Law of Cooling is used for convection…but then I started changing some of the inputs, white paint, silver paint, radiator design. The one in the picture is painted silver, and GPT thinks the radiant is only around 10-15% in that case. If it were unpainted cast iron, it would be as above, white paint would lower it slightly to 28-37% because lighter colors are worse radiant emitters, and black would increase it to 39%. I remember reading Dan's article on this https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/metal-paints-and-radiators/ . But this is the first time I've actually seen the math, and I thought this was pretty cool. I wouldn't have tried to do the calculations just with the ASHRAE handbook equations, but AI sure does make things easier…

    mattmia2
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 25,702

    AI does… most of the time… when it's correct. Which, unhappily, it isn't always.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    PC7060random12345