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Experience I had with a boiler tech and what I learned along the way.

mo8414
mo8414 Member Posts: 24
edited February 26 in THE MAIN WALL

A couple months ago I noticed my boiler kind of smelled funny in the same way a ventless space heater kinda smells and its been lighting with a big woosh. My cousin works in the office of a heating and cooling place so I decided to have her send out their boiler tech. I specifically told her I wanted a combustion analysis done on it.

He shows up, looks at my old 1955 boiler and asks if I run it alot which struck me as an odd question. Like yea when its cold I run it.

So I leave him to it. He takes apart the thermo couple, then puts it back togeather. I'd assume he checked out the gas valve but I wasn't watching him too closly. Anyway 10 minutes later he is done and lights the pilot. Tells me my cover is home made and I should tape off the vent slots that are in it since that is how the original would have been. He grabs his combustion analizer and Calls for heat so the boiler lights with a big woosh. Sticks the analizer in the opening by the PRV and gets 5ppm CO. Calls his boss ,steps outside to talk to him then is told to shut my boiler down and it needs to be replaced for $10k.

He goes on to tell me its a bad seal and can't be fixed packs up and leaves. Looking back he had to know the roll out would cause CO to go into that area because it has a clear path up to that area just outside the combustion chamber where the roll out is happening.

So I spend a couple days on the internet and ask people on different forums/groups and go about checking the boiler out my self. I bought a bacharach insight plus and did my own combustion test since he never ended up doing one. The CO in the exhaust was pretty high so clearly inefficent air fuel mixture.

I learned online that orange flame is typically just pollutants in the air but yellow like a candle is no good. So I look at the burners and a few of them have yellow so I adjust the air damper till its burning nice and blue. That yielded better CO results but still not great.

Next I removed the exhaust pipe and looked down into the heat exchanger that was clearly fouled up with carbon and other crap from it not burning right. I ordered 3 different brushes and when they came in I setup my bagged vacuum with a hepa filter, put on a respirator and went to town brushing it in every which direction I could till it was all clean. I used a bore scope to check all the seals along the exchanger sections and it was all good. Cleaned the burners out real nice and put them back.

I used the monometer on my analizer to check the gas presure and adjusted it .1. I also got rid of the 5" exhaust pipe and made it 6" exhaust since that is what the opening on the boiler is and I used a chart to figure out what size it should be for the BTUs I'm putting out and it also confirmed 6" was correct. I found that the burners were starving a bit for air so I added the square screen section to the door since it originally only had the slots at the top for air supply and that helped it quite a bit.

So after a day of cleaning and adjusting everything I got it all back togeather and got my CO in the vent pipe to be 0ppm and 0ppm by the prv opening. Here are some pictures.

Larry WeingartenethicalpauldelcrossvAlan (California Radiant) ForbesEdTheHeaterManGGrossSuperTechHVACNUTSootmasterIronmansdodder

Comments

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,628

    That was a salesman, not a tech. What part of the country was this?

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    SuperTechIronman
  • mo8414
    mo8414 Member Posts: 24
    edited February 26

    Michigan. They could have just brushed my boiler and made probably a grand or so then would have also had my business for the aquastat I just replaced but instead I'll just get help from the fine people on sites like this and do it my self.

    delcrossv
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,744

    Hi @mo8414 , Looks like you could have a job doing real boiler service if you wanted it 🤠 … The only thing that caught my eye is the reducer in the vent, just before it goes vertical. If it works, and you get good readings with both appliances running, than life is good. 😸

    Yours, Larry

    mo8414joeshrapnel
  • mo8414
    mo8414 Member Posts: 24

    With all the money I dropped on this analizer it might be worth doing a couple jobs lol

    the reducer is definitely on the list of things to do. Probably going to make that a summer project. I figured the numbers are good enough for now that it can wait a bit.

    joeshrapnel
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 17,291
    edited February 26

    Don't know what your CO2 is but it should be around 8%. Looking at your O2 your are probably OK. Looks like a Crane boiler with the old CI burners.

    In the 5th picture down the burner air shutters look closed. I assume this was a B4 picture??

    Sad that you couldn't get a professional to even try and fix this.

    Unfortunately, it is the times we live in.

    delcrossvjoeshrapnel
  • mo8414
    mo8414 Member Posts: 24
    edited February 26

    Yea it was a before picture and it was probably open a little bit. Its a pensylvania furnace company boiler. They went out of business in the 60s I think. Co2 was 8.3% accoring to a print out I have.

    delcrossv
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 17,291

    8.3% Co2 is good especially with your CO #s

    mo8414
  • joeshrapnel
    joeshrapnel Member Posts: 7

    Nice work. I have an oil burner that I'm trying tolearn everything about to do the work myself. 3 companies I've had business with really did questionable work. I have no problem paying for work to get done, but do the work I pay for.. I totally get your frustration and resorting to getting your own anylizer. That's my next step. I rebuilt my Beckett this past fall and changed the filter on the tank. Good luck going forward.

    mo8414sdodder
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,611

    Nice job. Good to see you know the only proof is the analyzer.

    You know the CO was caused by rollout. You know what you can add to the burner circuit?

    A Rollout Switch… Wired in series with your new...

    Manual Reset Spill Switch. Now you're in the 21st century. And safer. Kind of.

    delcrossvLong Beach Edmo8414
  • mo8414
    mo8414 Member Posts: 24

    Adding the safty devices is a good idea.

    Long Beach Ed
  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,676

    Read, read and read some more. The older publications are the best. Many technicians haven't read since high school and with the poor training in many careers, have only learned the bad habits of their "mentors".

    Larry Weingartenjoeshrapnelmo8414sdodder
  • Sootmaster
    Sootmaster Member Posts: 34

    Good job. When can you start?

    Good idea to retrofit a spill and rollout as mentioned.

    I usually pull the burners and shake them out

    Then turn the vac around and blow out the boiler passages. Make sure you have a mask on (and your wife isn't around). The dust settles in minutes.

    mo8414
  • mo8414
    mo8414 Member Posts: 24

    I always wear a respirator when dealing with dust. Did so much without one in my younger years that I can't tolerate smoke or dust too much these days. Learned my lesson on that aspect. I went through it with compressed air but using the vacuum to blow is a pretty good idea when there is no compressor avaliable. I'm pretty happy I ended up going through everything, now I know it top to bottom and this one being so old there really isn't a whole lot to it.

  • mo8414
    mo8414 Member Posts: 24

    Sounds Like the other companies were just taking advantage of the home owner. You wouldn't think it would be possible to miss some of the things you listed. At least she finally came across someone who was honest enough just to clean it up and switch out the parts it really needed. Good on you for getting it going so she didn't have to fork out thousands more.

  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,676
    edited February 28

    Many of the residential "service companies" here on Long Island don't even employ mechanics who speak English. They call the office and hand the phone back and forth to the homeowner. Usually try to sell new equipment over the phone…

    mo8414tcassano87pecmsg
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,930
    edited March 1

    Zero CO? hmmm that's odd

    where are you sticking the probe?

    high CO—-many more reasons that fuel/air ratio

    I hope you have some good CO detectors on the home

    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    Long Beach Ed
  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,676
    edited March 4

    I'm not directing this at the original poster, but combustion regulation requires far more than a computer combustion analyzer.

    There's a huge learning curve that goes into adjusting combustion and understanding the particulars. Working on combustion in small boilers is a rather obscure specialty. Finding material on the topic that is the proper blend of theory and mechanics can be difficult. Unfortunately we've recently lost a great training resource in the field.

    When you buy that combustion analyzer, search beyond the little leaflet that comes in the package.

    The computerized analyzers may have made the job a little too easy.

    Mad Dog_2Intplm.hot_rod
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 24,587

    A good observation, Ed.

    Training is so available these days. I imagine every manufacturer of analyzers offers online and live training. Bacharach had excellent on site training and trainers.

    The introduction of mod cons changed the game as far as owning an analyzer. At the very least you can check and confirm the numbers.

    Assuming the meters are checked and calibrated as needed.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Long Beach EdLyle {pheloa} Carter
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,930

    At least he has a machine, more than you can say for most DIYers. At least he grabbed the right location to stick the probe into.

    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    mo8414Steamhead
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,930
    edited March 4

    (let me assume there's not an integral draft hood as well)

    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    delcrossv
  • mo8414
    mo8414 Member Posts: 24

    I'm the type of person that spends hours researching things when it comes to stuff like this and have watched just about every combustion analizer video on you tube, even the ones that are like an hour and a half long of experts discussing different things about analysis.

    I've also looked through most forums and reddit discussions on the subject. Luckily for me most of my day at work consists of me sitting around with nothing better to do than look online.

    Its also why I bought the insight plus because it can be calibrated using your own gas and regulator and you can get pre calibrated sensors for it too. I wouldn't have blew $2k without doing the research. I certainly do understand the concern you guys may have though since its obviously not my expertise but from what I can tell, everything is in order. I appreciate the help and feed back everyone has givein, you guys know your stuff.

  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,676
    edited 1:59PM

    Not many people like you seem to be left. It's a shame that so few technicians who make a living doing this share your qualities.