Smoke smell in house with oil boiler
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I don't know what that is, but the technician didn't mention anything about it. Sorry, you're talking to a neophyte here. I only know how to flip the switch at the top of the stairs.
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Are the bolts on the service door tight? Sometimes they get loose or the service tech forgets to tighten them sufficiently.
The lack of a barometric damper and flue liner is definitely a major contributor. You absolutely need a barometric damper and it’s likely the unlined chimney is leaking combustion products or suffering air infiltration that’s messing up the draft.
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i dont see one.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
Yeah i don't either but he hasn't shown all sides.
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On the chimney — yours is not that old. Which doesn't mean that it's in decent condition. Has a qualified chimney sweep inspected it, top to bottom? Is it lined at all, and if so, with what?
Be nice to eliminate the chimney as a problem…
You do not have a barometric damper… and they can help.
However, all that aside, I think we need to go right straight back to square one. If you are getting smoke smell in the house, that means that air is moving from the basement into the rest of the house, no? Assuming the chimney is OK. It would be worth figuring out where the air is exhausting from the house. Exhaust fans? Significant air leaks? Take a look around.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
…………..as if the truck has no heat……………….🙄
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Jamie Hall quote: "If you are getting smoke smell in the house, that means that air is moving from the basement into the rest of the house, no? Assuming the chimney is OK. It would be worth figuring out where the air is exhausting from the house. Exhaust fans? Significant air leaks?"
I assume the chimney mortar or bricks could be defective at any point along the entire length, not just in the basement, no? I'm wondering if the chimney is leaking in the space between the basement ceiling and the floor above it. That would explain why it smells worse on the first floor than in the basement.
When you ask about where air is exhausting from the house, do you mean where is negative pressure being created and drawing air up from the basement? I rarely turn on the bathroom or kitchen exhaust fans. I'm sure there are air leaks in this old house, but that wouldn't explain the CHANGE in the smoke problem 3 weeks ago, since the leaks have probably been there for a long time. It wasn't exactly an abrupt change. I did notice it when I starting heating in October, but it wasn't that bad. It gradually got worse.
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Do you need more photos? Of what, exactly?
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You don't have one. This is where the Barometric draft control would be located on your Boiler.
As a result of not having a Barometric Draft Control, the air fuel mixture will constantly change as the pressure inside the fire chamber changes. Since the chimney draft changes constantly with weather, barometric pressure and wind conditions at the top of the chimney, the amount of draft (or vacuum in the chimney) will change constantly. Since the top of that chimney is connected by a piece of connector pipe (Smoke Pipe) to the back of the heater, the pressure will change there constantly. Since the oil burner is connected to the front of the boiler, the pressure that is in the fire box chamber is constantly changing. and since the oil burner fan is pushing air for combustion into the fire box that is constantly changing the amount of air the fan delivers to the fire. When the fire box pressure is lower the oil burner fan will push more air into the flame. When the firebox air pressure is higher, then the burner fan will deliver less air to the flame. And this pressure is changing second by second, so there is nothing you can do to constantly adjust it. The barometric damper will do that for you.
Oil odors can change as the flame becomes rich or lean based on the amount of excess air that is delivered to the oil flame. So sometimes the odor will be stronger than other times. As a result of the age of the chimney and the possibility of the mortar joints leaking combustion byproducts thru those leaks in the mortar joints, I would strongly recommend that you get a chimney liner. That will improve the draft of the chimney in many cases. (by improve I mean make more draft). But that improvement will actually increase your oil usage because the more powerful chimney will suck more heat out of your heater. By adding the Barometric Draft control The cooler basement air will be going up the chimney while less air from the heater will go up the chimney. The draft control damper will open to let less heater air and more basement air go up the chimney. The damper, when properly adjusted, will constantly be moving open and closed as the chimney draft changes so the air moving thru the heater will stay constant. That way the fire box pressure will be at a constant pressure regardless of what is happening at the top of the chimney. You want that pressure to be about -0.01"wc over the fire and about -0.025"wc at the breach where the connector is located (smoke pipe). Your oil berher service person will need to make those adjustments for you.
This is as simple as I know how to tell that story. It may be a little complicated but the bottom line is that you want a Barometric Draft Control and a chimney liner in order to get rid if the odor.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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OK, it looks like we're getting to an understanding of the cause of the smoke smell. I'll look into the barometric draft control immediately. Next question: How do I handle getting quotes for a chimney liner? It costs $250 just to have someone come and inspect the chimney before they will do a quote. If I get four quotes, that's $1,000! I really can't afford that.
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Who do you purchase your oil from? If it is an old time full service company, they should know a good Chimney Professional. Look at online reviews of the different Chimney Professionals. Just remember that no one can please everyone. Some of the people that post bad reviews are just folks that have a problem paying their bills. I always discount a bad review from people that complain about the price. They are not telling you about the quality of the work, they are complaining about the price.
Look for reviews from people that don't mention price but only talk about the work that was completed and the results of a job well done. You get what you pay for!
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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We have an excellent local chimney sweep. He inspected our chimney and gave us a quote for a flexible stainless steel liner for a gas burner conversion from oil, at no cost for coming to take a look. (We already have the original terra cotta liner for the oil burner.)
We ultimately decided against the gas conversion, so didn't go for the stainless steel liner. But when we needed chimney waterproofing repairs and a chimney cap the following year, we used this local sweep, who did good work promptly at a reasonable price.
Whenever I find a contractor like that, I give him repeat business, because it's hard to find people who will do the job (1) fast, (2) well, and (3) at a reasonable price. Usually you have to settle for 2 out of 3. When you find someone who gives you all three, you hit the jackpot.
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Is it the norm to charge for a quote for a liner? I feel like I should contact three or four people for a quote.
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Going up on a roof etc is time/ risk. So not unreasonable to charge for that.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
I doubt there's one there but check around the chimney. Older homes sometimes had the regulator in the chimney itself.
I noticed it's a positive pressure boiler but I didn't notice it's missing the draft regulator. I haven't been the same since the accident.
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I'm noticing something that could be a further clue. The smoke odor comes and goes throughout the day. Right now the outside temperature is about 30F and the wind is gusting to 25 mph. The thermostat is set at 50 and the inside temperature is 55. I've been up for 3 hours and the furnace hasn't come on since then. And yet every now and then the smoke odor returns. So it seems like the smoke is only partially related to whether the furnace is burning or not, although it does increase when the furnace comes on. Does that tell you anything?
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For chimney work, I would rather have a local firm recommended by the oil tech than one of the "national marketers".
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do you have any pictures of the area below your wood burning chimney? Do you have an ash cleanout or is there any cracks in the bottom of that chimney firebox where ash can be dropping down into the cinderblock or bricks below? Its the only thing I can think of where a light smell of something smokey may be coming from on windy days when your boiler is not running.
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What are the chances that it's not smoke from combustion but the smell of oil its self?
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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Maybe its coming from one of your neighbors? If your not running your system then it's got to be coming from someone else. You might have tall trees now that you didn't have before and it's affecting the wind pattern. Wind pressure on your house causing infiltration of the neighbors boiler flue gases.
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No expertise here, but I still do not see a barometric draft control? Has one been added?
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I was wondering if an unreasonable fee would therefore be reasonable?
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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This indicates that the mortar around the bricks is deteriorating. That will let some of the odors inside the chImney leak out. If those leaks are near an inside wall in your home, then whenever there is a positive pressure inside the chimney those odors will enter your home. The repair for this can be expensive depending on how much mortar is missing and how easy it is to access. This type of repair is called pointing. The chimney liner will eliminate the need for pointing the chimney due to leaks. It won't reduce the need for pointing for structural reasons.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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There is none. I'm working on that.
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Thank you, Ed. This is helpful. My sense is that the chimney could be leaking in the space between the basement ceiling and the floor above it, as well as where the chimney passes through the kitchen. Does this also explain why the smell is intermittent and why it increases when the furnace is running—because the pressure is changing throughout the day? Does the pressure increase when the furnace is running?
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There is a few seconds of high pressure then the pressure drops to a draft or vacuum after that, when the chimney is new. When the chimney is leaking, like yours may be, then the draft is not as good and can even end up becoming a pressure when the wind (or light breeze) is in a certain direction. chimneys are a funny sort of thing and not very well understood by most folks.
Even some chimney professionals that just clean chimneys (not a certified chimney pro) don't really know how they work and what causes them not to work. I had a gentleman that advertised chimney cleaning for a low price in the local shopper guide. Lots of my customers used him for the simple stuff that is usually good enough. I had a customer with a problem similar to yours in an 1880's built home. That same chimney “Pro” took a look up the chimney with his mirror and saw light at the top and said that the chimney was just fine. But whenever the wind blew from the northeast, north, or northwest the pilot light would blow out. Even I could see that more than 50% of the mortar was missing from the bricks and there was no inner liner inside that chimney. But the “Pro” said everything was fine.
How do you compete with that?
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Some clarification, if you please.
(1) I want more negative pressure to draw the gasses up the chimney, correct? So does a damper lower the pressure inside the flue pipe and chimney when it's open? And then more gasses could "possibly" be drawn up the chimney, in spite of holes in the mortar?
(2) Is it worth $275 at this point to get a damper installed? Is the possibility that this could work high enough that it's worth spending the money?
(3) Would a chimney specialist lower a camera into the chimney to check the mortar, and would that definitively tell whether the mortar is the problem?
Thank you so much for your patience and your expertise! I appreciate it very much.
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I would get a chimney sweep to inspect the chimney.
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I got a pretty good air purifier—Winix 5200-2. My initial impression is that it's actually making the air quality worse on the first floor by pulling smoke up from the basement. Is this expected with anything that has a fan?
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Yes, that's correct. Couldn't it pull air up through various air passages?
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