1970 Boiler 5000 gallon a month leak

PatINold · February 1

My wife showed me a very high water bill. I called the utility company and its 5000 extra gallons for the month. I checked all appliances that use water to eliminate those. The American standard boiler we have is original from when they built the house around 1970's. The system has brass pipes in our cement slab leading to baseboard heaters. Since we moved in I have had to add water to the system continually to keep it from "gurgling" . I cannot find any signs of water in the house. I am in Indiana and our ground is currently frozen. I think i might have found one spot near our foundation that is softer

I have called a leak detection company to come to the house to find the leak. My fear is its in the cement slab. I've seen other posts for pro's and con's for digging up leak vs capping and running new line through the walls.

I am looking for help from someone with experience in my area.

Fort Wayne, IN.

Thanks

LRCCBJ · February 1

My fear is its in the cement slab.

Sadly, your fear is probably correct.

When you cannot see any leak of that size, it must be underground.

mattmia2 · February 1

Is the relief valve somewhere where you can tell if water is coming out of it, or is it directly in to a drain?

PatINold · February 1

The relief valve is damp not dripping.

Jamie Hall · February 1

Brass pipesin the slab? Much more likely to be copper. And at that age I'd almost be surprised in the didn't leak somewhere…

It will be much easier to run new lines along the walls. With a little ingenuity they can be run in chases, or in baseboard chases, without having to tear things apart… much.

I don't know of anyone in your area, sorry.

pecmsg · February 1

if a leak under the slab get someone that has a Flir camera.

EBEBRATT-Ed · February 1

It's doubtful if you should waste any time fixing the underground piping other than confirming the leak.

You need a professional to come up with a new design and repiping.

American Standard boiler are like tanks. But all that MU water is not good for the boiler. Due to the boilers age once you get the repiping straightened out I would get some quotes and budget for a future boiler replacement when the time comes

PatINold · February 1

I have an AC unit in the attic that was added after the house was built. It might need to be replaced sooner than later.

Could I get heat and air in a new attic unit and take the boiler to the gun range for some payback?

tim smith · February 1

How often are you adding water. 2nd off, I would highly doubt it is the underfloor piping causing 5000 gals a month loss unless it had an auto fill that was ice cold and constantly running or unless he is constantly filling daily. Shut the main water line valve off in the house and go out to water meter and see if it is still spinning. I would be more likely to believe a bad water main coming to house from meter. Again without little more information hard to say. Of course having to add water regularly to heating system still indicates a leak that will need to be addressed, just maybe not the big cause of loss.

pecmsg · February 1

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1839555#Comment_1839555

sure…..

If you want real headache.

EdTheHeaterMan · February 1

If you are adding that much cold water to the heating system over a month, look foreword to a higher than normal bill from the oil or e gas company.

Kaos · February 1

Get a budget FLIR camera. Cold domestic water leaks will show as cold spots in the slab, boiler leaks and hot water leaks will be hot.

It is possible that the 5000 gal is going into your boiler, but also pretty unlikely.

Be careful with shutting water off at the meter during a cold snap, if the pipe is not buried enough you can end up freezing the supply.

To see if heat pump would work first need to know how many therms of fuel are you using a season and also how big is the existing attic AC.

Long Beach Ed · February 1

… or wait and see if the flowers around the foundation bloom in February.

PatINold · February 1

I have had the water pressure going into it at about 5 to 10 psi. Im nervous if i dont have constant water going in it leaks and runs low on water and then pump will not push water through the lines. Worst part for me is I found out about the leak on Wednesday and had to leave town Thursday morning for work till this coming Monday night.

gyrfalcon · February 1

A tradesperson in my town mentioned-

Colliers in Ft Wayne.

tim smith · February 1

So you are not adding water periodically but constantly? If that’s the case then most likely tube in slab is culprit.

PatINold · February 5

I had an associate of American Leak Detection at our house to start looking for the leak. We have one room with a lowered slab that has a slightly raised wooden platform on top of the slab. The space between the slab and the wooden raised floor makes it hard to determine exactly where the leak is. They did say in our area they see more of these leaks in pipes than anywhere else in this county. They believe something in the soil reacts to the pipes causing pinhole leaks. Has anybody else heard of this in an area they are familiar with?

Jamie Hall · February 5

Yes. Some soils attack copper very quickly. So does the water in some places. Never mind concrete.

Copper is wonderful pipe, but… I have to say I'm wary of it when it is in direct constant contact with things…

PatINold · February 7

Update and more questions. Today we had our fourth HVAC visit for quotes. The last company seemed to have more plumbing information than the others. All the others went straight to installing forced air furnace unit in my attic. This last one also said that I have to run new duct work for the attic force air furnace. No other companies who have visited looked into the vents. My understanding is that the duct work that we have now that works for our AC unit cannot be used for heat. If used for heat we would get mold in our drywall. We have an attic then a second story and a ground floor. 2100 sq ft 12 vents in our house now. Why not find leak under slab and fix? Quotes from $$ to $$ on new AC and new Forced air furnace in atic. No quote yet from last company that said I needed new duct work. I was told find the leak, dig it up and fix in 4 hours $$. Fixing the flooring is not above $$ tops. We really like our boiler water register heat. I asked about their past experiences in fixing leaking pipes under slabs and then recurring issues.

He said its rare to come back and fix another in the same house.

Thoughts. Thanks ahead of time.

delcrossv · February 7

Mold in the drywall from HEAT?

Smells like a scam.

mattmia2 · February 7

where is the pipe that is leaking? is there an alternative place to run it?

PatINold · February 7

We do have a door that leads to 3 season room that would be the one hurdle to running new pipe in wall.

gyrfalcon · February 8

Do you have pictures of the area? Did the contractor offering to dig it up say any other details?

PatINold · February 24

So I decided to abandon the boiler and go to forced air heat. The buried lines sound like an ongoing problem in my area. The new Bryant AC and furnace are installed and running great. I would like to remove the American Standard boiler and some base board heaters. I have open up drains on the boiler and drained until it stopped. I’m sure there is water in the first floor of the house. I hooked up a shop vacuum to the drain valve and was able to get some more water. I let the shop vacuum run for at least 1/2 an hour as I could feel water coming out. I closed off valves to different zones as I was vacuuming a single zone at a time. I’m not so sure I was actually only vacuuming a single zone? Is there a way to get all the water out by air pressure or vacuum suction?

techforlife · February 26

open all the valves and it may leak out.

hot_rod · February 26

if you have “hot” aggressive , low ph soil as suggested, you have or will have more leaks in an old copper system.

I would keep searching for a way to repipe the hydronic system above the slab

1970 Boiler 5000 gallon a month leak

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