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Need a replacement boiler

It's about time to replace my boiler. I have single pipe steam, natural gas powered. My boiler does short cycle a bit so I do think it's oversized. I need to do the math on the EDR to figure out what size I need. But I do have a few questions. The upstairs of my house has 3 big radiators and one small (3 bedrooms and 1 bathroom). I leave two of the big radiators off otherwise it gets way too hot upstairs (thermostat set to 67 and it'll be 80+ upstairs). How do I factor this into my EDR calculation? Is there a solution to the upstairs getting too hot other than shutting the radiators off? My other question is does anyone know a steam expert in Central CT? I'd just like to have everything checked out in addition to the boiler replacement, I'm sure my main venting isn't great and I do get a little banging in my pipes. I've attached pictures of my current boiler, if anyone notices anything that should be fixed when it's replaced I'd appreciate a heads up!

Comments

  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,353
    edited November 16

    You can put thermostatic vents on the bedroom rads to slow them down.

    Your present boiler is piped incorrectly.

    463 sqft of EDR? Yeah, probably oversized.

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
    nate70500Long Beach Ed
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,878

    You might try @Charlie from wmass and see if he'll take a look. I have a feeling that he's about as busy as he can handle, but he's one of the best.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    nate70500
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,672

    If you have those radiators turned off all the time, you can choose not to count them in your EDR total. There is a lot of extra capacity in the Net Sq Ft of Steam value that boilers are rated with (which is matched to total EDR). It will depend on what your total is compared to those radiators.

    But you can decide once you get a total and decide on a line of boilers…one size or another might make more sense at that point.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    Revenant
  • bburd
    bburd Member Posts: 1,043

    Your temperature balance problem is probably a venting issue, we can help you sort that out.

    Keep in mind that anyone who buys your house in the future is likely to expect a heating system with enough capacity to heat all the rooms.


    Bburd
    nate70500
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,672

    It will have the capacity. And I agree with you, but we see dozens of new home owners whose systems are barely operational.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • nate70500
    nate70500 Member Posts: 46

    Thanks. What is wrong with the current piping and how should it be corrected? I'd like to make sure whoever i have replace the boiler does it correctly .

  • nate70500
    nate70500 Member Posts: 46

    How would I approach fixing the venting issue?

    My downstairs is about 25% more area than upstairs but the downstairs only have 3 radiators, one being a baseray baseboard heater.

  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,353
    edited November 16

    The Installation manual of the boiler you pick will have a drawing of correct near boiler piping. Make sure that it's in the contract with the installer "All near boiler piping shall be as shown in the manufacturers installation manual and shall be in black iron pipe".

    As is, you aren't supposed to feed into a tee from the side like that. but all of that should come out with a new boiler install.

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
    nate70500dabrakeman
  • nate70500
    nate70500 Member Posts: 46

    thanks. It's not a rush to replace, i should be able to hold off until spring. I was just told it should be done within the next year or two.

  • RTW
    RTW Member Posts: 126

    Dear poster:

    I own that same model boiler, but just a tad smaller. I have a Honeywell pressuretrol that comes off the front with a pigtail and serves a pressure gauge too. Sight glass looks dirty so you may need some maintenance with that, and my skim port comes off the upper right front plug that helps with maintenance too.

    I see potential in keeping that 50ish year old boiler with some updated maintenance since new boilers are known to last only a fraction of that time. With annual maintenance I do - as well as was done by prior owner- my boiler works just fine. However, I did install main vents and tweak the radiator vents to even out steam distribution - all is well

    Regards,

    RTW

  • nate70500
    nate70500 Member Posts: 46

    Unfortunately the previous owner didn't take good care of it and the bottom is starting to rot out. I'd love to keep it going but would rather not have it die in the middle of the winter

  • nate70500
    nate70500 Member Posts: 46

    I'll keep that in mind! It probably won't be getting replaced until the spring but I'd be happy to sell you whatever you want when I do replace it

    Revenant
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,200

    @nate70500

    There are three contractors listed in Connecticut that are choices in the "Find a contractor in your area" selection on this sight. Try that. As to the radiators that are overheating. The rads themselves might be too large. When the contractor comes by they should do all of the proper measurements to properly size your new system.

    Removing the asbestos around the pipes and bringing your system up to code/proper working order is of course, what should be expected.

  • bburd
    bburd Member Posts: 1,043

    Regarding the venting, there is much to be said. You could search other threads on this site. I believe it's covered in the book "We got steam heat! A guide to peaceful coexistence", by the founder of this site and available here.

    That said, it sounds like you may have insufficient radiation on the ground floor, especially if one of the original standing radiators has been replaced by baseboard. Balancing the system by venting the ground floor radiators faster than the upper floor radiators may not be enough to compensate. A good steam specialist can identify this for you and recommend changes.


    Bburd
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,377

    Please never give this advice to anyone. To not include the edr is going to cause many issues especially the day they finally turn them back on due to change of use patterns.

    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    RevenantSteamheadIntplm.Long Beach Ed
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,377

    To original poster fix it this year and change in the summer if this one isn't leaking. IMHO.

    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,672

    if someone says their rooms are so warm that they never turn on those radiators, I'm sorry, but I don't see the harm in not including them in the boiler size. As I said, every single boiler comes automatically oversized by 33% from the factory even if you perfectly match it. So even in the unlikely case that someone would turn those radiators back on, there would be likely be plenty of "slop" to provide steam to them. Note the poster currently has a 463 sq ft boiler.

    Please read what I wrote, which I find to be reasonable. You can disagree, but here is what I wrote:


    It will depend on what your total is compared to those radiators.

    But you can decide once you get a total and decide on a line of boilers…one size or another might make more sense at that point.

    Why is it OK for so many contractors to dramatically oversize boilers, not even size them, or just bump up to the next larger one because the correct sized one is not in stock, but it's forbidden to give this kind of advice for the homeowner to make a thoughtful decision based on radiators they actually use?

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    Revenantrynoheat
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,163

    I have to agree w charlie when asked to not include radiators to a edr for a replacement boiler due to them shutting them off or not using those rooms i will usually give a quote for the correct size boiler and leave it at that . If they have some else do the job w a undersized boiler , that's fine but i will not be the one reasonable for installing a boiler which will not meet the connected edr and leave them cold on design day it a bad business and just plain silly . I some times read what advice some give and laugh being its easy to give advice without having to be held reasonable for said advice and also make a living in the process. From not flushing and washing out your boiler to the no need for a equalizer or insulation on the system piping i shake my head and grin and say ok they know better then some one who does it for a living ,solves issue, installs and repairs these systems for a couple of decades or from them just having a steam system in your home possibly installing and maintaining your own system and being a steam fan there's a huge difference from that to earning a living and providing a service to those in need without guessing cause no one pays for guessing they pay for results and when dealing w old stuff there's alot more then guess work it called experience and this is what people pay for not guessing or theories they pay and they want real results .

    peace and good luck clammy

    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating

    SteamheadScottSecorIntplm.Long Beach Ed
  • nate70500
    nate70500 Member Posts: 46

    That's my plan! You're one of the people recommended to me so ill be reaching out this spring about it.

  • nate70500
    nate70500 Member Posts: 46

    My boiler isn't dead, it's just had a lot of issues and the last inspection they noticed it is beginning to rust out. So it's still running and should also the winter. I know heating companies (especially the few steam pros) are slammed during the winter so I can wait til spring/summer.

  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,377

    Time is the issue not size of the boiler. 20 minutes at X btus or 50 minutes at 0.75 X btus. That is the increase in infiltration.

    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,298
    edited November 17

    that’s fine but let Charlie get the ball rolling so he knows what size he needs what material will be needed.

    God forbid that thing lets go in the middle of the winter you’re not going to have time to make these decisions

    delcrossvRevenant
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,387
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,878

    I am mildly intrigues by a comment up there regarding infiltration. A firing boiler will increase infiltration — while it is firing. Oddly, assuming it is properly adjusted, the amount of increase will be very very close to the firing rate of the boiler.

    Now… the firing rate of the boiler, times the length of time it is firing, will determine the amount of BTUs put into the building. The amount of BTUs required is determined by the building and the outside conditions and the normal infiltration given the outside conditions and the buidling.

    As was implied, lower firing rate will require a longer firing time. A lower firing rate will also result in lower excess infiltration. I doubt very much that whether a boiler is undersized or not will make a significant difference in overall infiltration.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    LRCCBJRevenantbburdrynoheat
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,377

    @Jamie Hall an atmospheric vented boiler can send 50 to 60 percent excess air up the chimney during a fire. True power burners are 25 to 30 percent plus whatever is dragging in by the barometric damper. A properly sized boiler is within 10 to 15 percent of the edr while undersized boilers may have a 100 percent duty cycle and still leave the building cold in places. Let me get an actual set of numbers together instead of theoretical numbers and maybe start another thread.

    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    pecmsgRevenant
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,878

    Good! Please do. It's a topic which I don't think has had enough examination…

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • RTW
    RTW Member Posts: 126

    From original poster: " Unfortunately the previous owner didn't take good care of it and the bottom is starting to rot out. I'd love to keep it going but would rather not have it die in the middle of the winter"

    By RTW:

    After you find out the cost$$$ of boiler replacement and anticipated troubleshooting after a new install, you may find yourself reconsidering keeping what works and just using updated maintenance/ repair from a steam professional from this site. You will find many, many posts on this site about all the problems with newly replaced boilers done incorrectly

    I wish you well in your endeavor and hope you post results. Like I said before, I have the identical boiler thats working just fine - with just annual cleaning and tweaking/maintaining the vents ( I did replace the fire box and burner decades ago).

    Regards,

    RTW