Rollout Tripping on Brand New Boiler?
New boiler installed a few days ago. Crown, 199,000 for a multi-family building. The boiler keeps dying, despite several tech visits to reset. At this point the installer says the rollout keeps tripping and he thinks its the flue, but he doesn't sound sure and it doesn't completely make sense.
The flue is about 15 years old, galvanized steel. It runs out the basement wall and up three stories of the exterior of the building, and it is very well capped. Of course, the bottom portion was taken apart and put back together during boiler installation. Here's how things have unfolded.
Day 1: Tech finishes install and runs new boiler for 15 minutes then leaves. I come home and run it for an hour with no issues.
Day 2: I run the boiler for an hour with no issues. Same night, boiler turns on for 15 minutes then dies. When the thermostat calls, it makes a very faint hum, like it's calling, but nothing else.
Day 3: Tech comes, starts boiler, and uses gadgets to "test everything" and runs it for 15 minutes. Same night, boiler won't start at all. It's making a faint hum, like it's calling, but nothing else.
Day 4: Tech comes, starts boiler, and uses gadgets to test everything. (I know that's vague, sorry.) Says "everything is OK, so we think it's the flue. We have to come back. Do you want me to turn it off or leave it on?
I say, "if you think it's OK, leave it on." Five hours later the boiler is still running fine. I touch the flue on the first floor and it's warm. Third floor, it's warm. I go to the roof and it's not quite as warm as below, but still warm. The cap is completely in tact and the holes are too small for most birds. (Definitely too small for any birds you see around here. Too small for squirrels. Maybe mice, but they'd be crazy to climb the slippery steel brackets hanging off the building and they have many more options for shelter below.)
I'm now waiting for the installer to plan an actual flue inspection, but I don't think the boiler would stay on if there really was a clog, and I suspect the CO2 alarms would go off in the basement at some point.
Could they be missing something else?
Comments
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There is a super simple test for a flue problem: what is the draught in the flue, measured at the boiler exhaust? The tech. and his gadgets should have measured that — and should have left you the results. Did he?
Which is not to say that you shouldn't get the flue inspected, too. Should have been done before the boiler install, but… oh well.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
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If the venting is not clogged then the problem is most likely the boiler does not have adequate combustion supply air. Is the boiler installed in an open basement or in a small mechanical room? Is there any exhaust fans in the building? Was the installation of the boiler inspected by the local authority who has jurisdiction over these things? Pictures of the installation would greatly assist with being able to help you.
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I assume the "rollout" switch is on the boiler draft hood where the exhaust gases go.
Not the burner rollout limit? (which is a one-time fuse link).
The draft hood limit is often referred to as "blocked flue sensor"…….which should tell someone something.
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This is a concern to me
"The flue is about 15 years old, galvanized steel."
I would like to see a photograph of this FLUE. Is it B vent? Is it single wall? Is it enclosed on the interior of the home? Is it exposed to outdoor temperatures?
The old boiler may have had some high temperature flue gasses leaving the basement, This new Crown Boiler may have lower temperatures that will make a poorly constructed flue (that worked fine on the old heater) insufficient for proper draft to pull the flue gasses from the building. Then those gasses will spill or roll-out where they should not go, making the roll-out of spill switch trip.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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1st this company doesn’t have 24/7 service number?
2nd forget the store bought CO Detectors. There only good to let you know it’s too late! They will not alarm until 70PPM is reached and exceeded for up to 3-hours.
You need a non-UL listed Low Level CO Detector for below 70 PPM for 3-4 hoursCall the company and give them 2 options
a) Correct what’s wrong
b) remove it.
199,000btu/h
That’s huge!
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199,000btu/h, That’s huge!
Multi Family. I hope it is more than 3 families or that each unit is a mansion size apartment
LOL
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Ha! Five apartments and two stores. It's replacing a 299,000 boiler that only lasted 9 years. When it's on it's much smoother and quieter than the 299, which I assume was decided upon before the walls had insulation and when the windows were single pane. Original construction was somewhere between 1898 and 1900.
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Just curious, how was it determined that 199,000 was the right size?
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SWAG Method. LOL
And now it won't work in that chimney.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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A boiler that is 50% smaller is going to fall at a different place in the vent tables in the code…
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The old boiler may have had a hefty standing piolet light that kept the vent pipe warm enough to induce a good draft when the boiler fired.
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Here are some photos. It's in a big basement, though partially sectioned off with wood slat, semi-walls. There are no fans, but there are windows we sometimes crack open. It seems really hot where the boiler meets the exhaust pipe. And the inspector matter is complicated. I live in a place experiencing a ton of development and minimal staff in city hall. Installers are generally allowed to move forward with emergency replacements but final approvals are often delayed.
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He did not. So I can expect them to give me the readout data? Thanks, this is good to know. I assumed they did check the flue when it was apart in the basement. Guess not thoroughly.
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It looks like the vent may be reduced and unless that is something insulated for 0 clearance, not just type b pipe, it is too close to combustibles on the outside.
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If I understand you correctly, you mean the fact that the flue pipe is coming out near the gas line, the igniter, etc. and running across the boiler before it goes out to the wall? The old boiler was different. The exhaust and pipe were on one side and went out to the exterior wall without touching anything, everything else was on the other side.
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I should clarify, the new boiler is 241,000 btu. It has two sets of numbers on the back, input says 241 and output says 199. I read 199 the other day and it stuck in my head. My mistake.
We had paid one HVAC company to include an "EDR" assessment in the estimate. They never gave us an official report, or a written estimate (so we decided not to use them). But I kept the radiator measures and found a chart online to compute EDR. I came up with 250,000. Four other HVAC companies suggested between 240 and 260. So when this last estimate came in at 241 we just assumed the stars were in order and went with it.0
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