Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

Am I missing something here?

2»

Comments

  • cniessen1
    cniessen1 Member Posts: 30

    What you say is definitely true if the piping is insulated. Once its hot, its not absorbing any heat. So it can heat 426 sq ft of actively radiating surface.

    However, if the pipes are continually radiating heat out, they will continue to absorb heat from the steam. In which case they need to be included in that 426 sq ft, and have impacts on the system beyond the heat needed to get the pipes up to temp. If I've got 400 sq ft edr of radiator, and 60 sq ft of radiating pipe, thats 460 sq feet of surface actively radiating. If each square foot of radiating surface gives off 240 BTU (assuming 70 degree room, 2psi steam at 215 degrees), then that requires a net heating capacity of 110K BTU. The EG-40 is rated at 426 * 240 = 103K BTU (which is the DOE rating),

    Given that the pipes will continue to radiate 240 btu/sq ft once hot, I don't quite understand the idea that the pickup factor no longer applies when the pipes are hot, unless you mean that if the pipes and boiler are insulated, or have a sufficiently small effective radiating surface that radiative losses from them aren't significant.

    I'm really trying to apply an engineering approach here. I'm more than welcome to be corrected, or shown a different way to calculate it. But 60 sq ft of piping uninsulated adds an additional 14.4K BTU of load. If its insulated it will add only a negligable amount at temperature. And it seems to me that should impact system design. Happy to learn otherwise if someone can explain it.

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 25,191

    Ah. I see. We folks who've been in the business for a few decades or so have been doing it all wrong. Thank you for enlightening us.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    EdTheHeaterManethicalpaulNew England SteamWorks
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 9,680

    YEA. @cniessen1 is missing something. And there is no way any of us are going to convince him that what he is missing can't be explained politely. And none of us are ready to cross the politeness threshold.

    Just Sayin'

    But I do get a kick out of many of his numerous statements. He is probably right. And maybe some day he might get someone to quote him a PEG 45 with a tankless coil, and a water heater of his liking. Then the world according to @cniessen1 will come together like the Stephen Hawking's life long quest for quantum mechanics, singularity theorem,  theoretical physics, thermodynamics, and the Big Bang and Steady State theories. will all join to make the  The Theory of Everything finally be understood by us mere mortals,

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    ethicalpaul
  • cniessen1
    cniessen1 Member Posts: 30

    No. Not at all. The techniques and engineering methods are all sound. Applying them appropriately is sound. That’s what all these rules of thumb are based on. It’s when there is an atypical condition that sometimes you have to verify your assumptions. That’s good engineering.

    As I’ve said many times already, I’d love someone to tell me what I’ve said that’s wrong. All I’ve gotten is ‘you’re wrong’. ‘Trust the contractors’. ‘Use the rule of thumb’. Please tell me one place where what I’ve said is incorrect or inaccurate. Believe it or not, I’m begging to be taught something specific here. I’m in no way disparaging any of you.

    ethicalpaulCLamb
  • cniessen1
    cniessen1 Member Posts: 30

    I am honestly sorry if my questions offended you. Truly. That was never my intention. I’m just trying to understand this. I’m just an engineer trying to talk to other engineers about an engineering problem. But I don’t think this has gone in a productive direction so I’ve learned my lesson. It’s just not my place to question these things. It’s seen as insulting. For that I’m truly sorry.

  • HeatingHelp.com
    HeatingHelp.com Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 89
    edited September 2024

    This discussion has run its course so we're going to close the thread. Just a reminder to all to be respectful in your comments. Thank you.

    Forum Moderator

    PC7060EdTheHeaterManNew England SteamWorks
This discussion has been closed.