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Tricks of the trade?

2

Comments

  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,623

    @mattmia2 Didnt think of that cool

    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
  • Eric_Pelchat
    Eric_Pelchat Member Posts: 1

    To replace a blown expansion tank without crushing yourself or something valuable (especially a #60 or #90 tank), isolate the tank and boiler 1st. Do this by closing every valve to the system so that the boiler and tank are isolated from everything else. Close any air vents that are in common to the tank and boiler. (1/2 blk cap on a Spirovent) Shut off the water feeder, put a hose on the main boilers drain and take the pressure off. While it starting to drain, push in or remove the valve core on the tank. This will siphon the water out of the tank and you can remove it empty.

    Larry Weingartendelcrossv
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,229

    Seeing Hotrod's picture of using stilts reminding me of another thing I use to do on HVAC rough in's.

    I would cut all the holes needed for a forced air system, ready for SR install.

    All the floor diffusers holes would get an old used floor diffuser, which I have always saved from previous jobs. This kept the stilt walker from putting his foot thru the hole and being injured. They don't always watch where they step while mudding.

    They did appreciate the plugs. This also kept major debris out of the boots when I did get them installed.

    I have also hired a good stilt walker to hang rows of replacement light fixtures and string wire thru the end to end rows. A real time and step saver.

  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,145
    edited August 31

    Here a few .

    changing a expansion tank that,s full if piped to do so use a small air pump and pressurize the bladder side of the the tank thus blown all the water out reducing weight and not getting a greenie rite of passage bapatizen which i guess these days would be a law suite being no one has a sense of humor and are offended by anything lol

    When piping condensate for air handler into a facer board and into the gutter ,instead of just pushing the pipe in and pull back a little instead cut a nipple and add coupling on it this way it acts as a stop and helps to avoid inserting up against the gutter 'also mark the top of the pipe if installing a elbow. Don't be cheap add a union prior and after your trap so the tap can be removed flushed out and drian flushed . i know theres gallo guns quick and easy but im old drag up nitro blow out drain and hose out trap and chk drain pan add anit fungal tabs

    we all use either wet switches and or float type valve to shut off the unit should the pan become either wet or full of water . i like to add a pvc ball valve to the aux drain so at least if and when the pan will build up some condensate instead of draining it builds up and avaicates the switch ,upon servicing the unit open the valve and let drain instead of having a unit drip into the pan and drain until either the aux drain cloggs or the pan holds alot of water and leaks or folds due to being supported only at each end

    when piping water feeds to especially a steam boiler aside from a shut off prior to your backflow preventer one should add a tee w a drain and another isolation valve ,this way when flushing out say returns or the bottom of the boiler (wanding it out ) You have a water connection right there instead of using a laundry sink or hot water heater drain . It makes life easier plus it only takes one non closing hot water heater drain to ruin a steam boiler maintenance job by having to drain the hot water heater to replace the drain . i add this set up to every boiler i have installed in the past 10 to 15 years . Only takes one bad hot water drain replacement and the time to see the value in this method .

    on hot water boilers common pipe manifold say a p/s set or simple pumping way i always end w full size pipe and add a female adp and say 1 or 1 1/4 bushing x either 3/4 or 1 inch depend on system size w a full port ball valve . this make power flushing and assisted power purging easier and if correctly sized for larger jobs a flush cart can be used to clean power flush and add treated dm water to the system . plus if a new zone is added the female adp is unsweat and another tee is added . Personally i have to have it look and be uniform .

    On control wiring and multi zone piping i use colored tags and collared cable ties on piping and t stat wires . This way at a glance one can see whats going on instead of wasting time and following out non marked field wiring . I used this for zone panels and air systems using air sensor to the control the programers loved it ,they did not waste time tracing wiring the colored cable tie made it easier to trace and check field wiring . plus if ur a bird nest wiring guy this can help at least trace a birds nest out over un doing it and the hassle . i add colored ties to all t stat wiring at the stat and at the zone valve and piping supply and return and relay on multi zone system ,home owners love it and service guy also make initial service visit a bit easier if it a wiring or control issue .

    One can get like tiny 2 inch cable ties quite cheaply plus when your older it easier looking at colors then miniature numbers on the wires

    Use insulation installation rods as pilot bits there super cheap throw away drill bits cut w dikes at a 45 they drill through just about all wood ,lamented beams and leave the tiniest hole beyond perfect for retro fit ac jobs and spotting ceiling grill locations through old plaster . plus who cares how many you lose in the attic ,one box of say 100 is about 1/2 the price of a cappy pilot bit . plus they never get dule just re cut

    First things first on service calls for heating and or cooling check for voltage hi and control before doing anything else without that there zippo .

    The biggest trick of the trade is to remain open minded weather servicing or installing never get to stuck into one thought and plans are made to change so dont be to pig headed and use your ears and eyes to do what there suppose t o do . Also be open to other ways of doing things never get stuck that theres only one way to do things and thats that it ain't so .

    After close to 40 years and close to the edge of being out and having work for various companies and capacities doing all things related to phvac i would hope i would have just a tiny tiny bit of tricks up my sleeve.i ve been asked and told by a few that i should write a book one on the tricks and proper ways to install hvac and one on service trouble shooting and wiring made easy but my writing skills and my personality are on the same levels rough and always taken the wrong way plus i believe thats been done and not read . I think the reason some ask is they fiqure looking at most crappy installs i guess it leads to that there really not enough written in lay men terms on general installation guide lines being if your the cheapest guy you have no time to learn nor teach anyone anything cause ya just gotta get it done. i know these books exist because there on my book shelf audels ,hoffman manual's and old manufactures tech service bulletins' now adays all ya get are the recall bulletins'

    Its not a race for the fastest its a race for the best final completed project also not the bottom of the barrell .

    peace and good luck clammy

    enjoy the last of the summer wine ,happy labor day

    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating

    PC7060Larry Weingarten
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,417

    I use my 1/2 & 3/4 Ridgid ratchet benders as much as possible...never on M tube (will spilt). It's artistic & fun. When BT (bendable copper tubing) was still being made, the Old Timers used the Holesclaw benders. I have a few in the barn. Mad Dog

  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,623

    Wow so many great ideas This is awesome and @hot_rod you need a hobby LOL

    Heres my tip for the day When opening a valve, especially one without a rising stem, I open it all the way and close it a full turn. This makes sure the valve doesn't freeze in place and someone with a pipe wren doesn't break the valve by using a pipe wrench on the handle. That was me

    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
    PC7060Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,467

    The offset is bent in the copper:

    Larry Weingarten
  • MikeL_2
    MikeL_2 Member Posts: 510

    I agree with those who grind the heads off tankless coil plate bolts; there's always enough stud left to grab with a 6" pipe wrench, and, after heating with a torch and cooling with an ice cube I've never needed or used any penetrating oil.

    I use the same pipe wrench with an extender pipe to remove stubborn, over tightened expansion tanks. The pipe wrench fits in the small space below the air scoop & doesn't round the corners of the tanks connector. We also cover all components below the expansion tank with a contractors plastic bag to prevent an accidental drowning.

  • Jackmartin
    Jackmartin Member Posts: 197

    Great tricks: I showed an apprentice this trick and he just slapped his forehead. He told me the hardest part of gas fitting was the final drop to the valve he could never get it level. I showed him this very simple trick, get a tape measure that fits inside a 3/4 fitting and make sure it's secure. Then run a long try piece out from the valve through the knockout in the furnace but not so long that it will not allow the tape to act as a plumb bob. Then get his level place it midpoint of the valve nipple now you have the exact distance between drop and valve. I read the comment about annealing hard drawn and using a bender, good idea. I bought a bender from a large plumbing supply house in England quite a few years ago. This bender is designed to bend hard drawn. The amount of frustration not to mention money on fittings paid for it long ago, besides it drives the other nuts trying to fiquire out how the hell you did it. One last thing we all know the pain it is to solder a fitting on a piece of pipe with no way to drain the water. This is so simple I slapped myself in the head, get the spray nozzle from any cleaning product shove the tube into the pipe and pull the sprayer it pumps all the water out in a mist. Now you have a fitting with no water and what was going to be an hour to boil the water out takes five minutes and no headaches.

    CLambDave Carpentier
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,128

    @Jackmartin That's why they make crappy propress and SharkBite. There is always the bread trick. Or cut in a union and stuff a rag in the pipe and solder the bottom first.

  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,229

    To add to Clammy's point of checking for power at furnace, I just go to the tstat and hit the fan switch to "on".

    This will tell you if there is 24 volt control voltage and also if 120 volts to motor/furnace/board.

    Then for AC coil condensate drains. I buy maybe a 6" SCH 80 threaded nipple, saw it in half, use one of the halves for the coil drain pan connection.

    Then next a 4-5" length of clear tubing that fits over 3/4" sch 40/80 pipe. From there than pipe the drain as needed.

    The pipe ends that go into the tubing may have to be tapered, the memory curve of the tubing would point the end down towards the floor. (not all drain ports come out level, some even run uphill). The clear tubing lets you observe the water stream or if the coil outlet is plugged. This gives you a union to take the rest of the drain piping out of the basement and flush it outside with hose. No coupling and glue needed.

    When the tubing gets too discolored I just change it. Often it is best to cut it to get it off without stressing the drain pan threads.

    mattmia2
  • When we purge our radiant loops, I stick the end of the hose in a bucket. The bucket fills up with water and you can see the air bubbling out. It takes a while and when the bubbles stop coming out, you’re done with that loop.

    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    Intplm.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,467

    i used vinyl tubing and hose clamps to put the pvc back together when the condensate was plugged on my furnace.

  • DCContrarian
    DCContrarian Member Posts: 547

    Similarly, if you have to remove a mystery pipe that you're 99% sure isn't connected to anything, if you drive a self-tapping screw into it you can see if anything comes out and seal it if something does.

    Here in DC, it's common to have old Victorians that were plumbed for gas light and then when they were converted to electricity the old gas pipe was used as conduit for the wiring. With luck your screw will short out the wiring, which will make identifying the circuit breaker a snap.

    PC7060CLamb
  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,313
    edited September 2

    …..gas pipe reuse as conduit in early 20th century house. Looks like this one dated from the 1960’s (correction NM-B, so 80’s, probably when the modern breaker panel was installed) . I’m sure the straight run from basement to attic was hard to resist. Fire foam sealing [and wire staple] were by me

  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,313

    A 4’ section of 2” pipe make an excellent pipe wrench extension. Not a novel trick but worth mentioning.

    Alan (California Radiant) ForbesIntplm.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,467

    is that nm or nm-b? nm with a vinyl instead of cloth and tar outer jacket became available in the late 60's or early 70's. nm-b is early 80's. neither that nm nor the staple look anywhere close to 60 years old.

    PRR
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,181
    edited September 2

    I service a lot of Munchkin boilers and the ones that are still in operation are getting clogged heat exchangers and condensate drains. When the condensate can’t drain, it backs up into the combustion chamber and errors out the boiler. Telltale water line marks on the soggy insulation when you remove the burner door.
    The drain pipe is almost impossible to get to, so I jet compressed air backwards from the end of the drain which has always been enough to break up the clog and get the condensate flowing again. It’s a last resort and always satisfying.

    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    PC7060
  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,313

    staple was part of rework I performed. Could be 80’s vintage wire.

  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,753
    edited September 2

    I hardwire thermostats & wire safeties in to break the R. You'll get a no-cool instead of the-bedroom-ceiling-just-fell-in if the condensate backs up or the pump fails.

    PC7060
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,229

    To add to PC's trick, the pipe cheaters I found to be the most helpful was using electrical thinwall tubing (EMT).

    Much lighter than rigid pipe.

    1 1/4" or 1 1/2" emt can be egg shaped to fit over non-tapered handles.

    Also the cheater can be jammed unto the pipe wrench handle and stay in place as a permanent extension.

    Might have to hammer it off the handle.

    PC7060
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,511

    Hi, Not sure if this is more hack than trick, but whenever screwing a metal fitting into a PVC fitting, I first put a hose clamp on the PVC and snug it down. This prevents splitting, which is nice. 😊

    Yours, Larry

    PC7060mattmia2Mad Dog_2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,467

    I did that when tapping some sort of an aluminum or white metal casting for a zerk.

  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,313
    edited September 4

    Any tips on cutting schedule 40 iron pipe in tight area? For example, not enough room to rotate pipe cutter.

    Recip saw certainly works but I'm not a fan of the pipe vibration that can occur when cutting.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,467

    Some pipe cutters can put cutting wheels in place of the rollers so it cuts at 3 points.

    PC7060
  • DCContrarian
    DCContrarian Member Posts: 547

    I have a cordless oscillating tool. I put in a titanium metal cutting blade and it will cut through anything. It's much less violent than a Sawzall. It only needs about a half inch more than the width of the blade to operate.

    PC7060
  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,313

    Good idea, do you have a brand of blade you prefer?

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,128

    U can replace the rollers in the pipe cutter (at least a Rigid cutter) with two extra cutters to make a 3 wheel pipe cutter as @mattmia2 suggested. They can be difficult to get started for a straight cut.

    Other than that if you have a Porta Band saw they work well and there is always sawzalls or the smaller hackzalls that work well.

    I would suggest marking a line around the pipe with a piece of shirt cardboard or a welders wrap around or other flexible straight edge to make a straight line around the pipe to follow.

    Porta Band work so well I never had a pipe cutter in my truck just xtra band saw blades. A Porta band will cut up to 4" and with practice you can cut perfectly straight.

    The other advantage with a porta band is there is no burr to remove as with a pipe cutter.

    PC7060mattmia2
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 2,377

    Decades ago I offered some services for HHW & CW.

    • use variable speed drive to plot system curve: then select circulator.

    • degas (& demineralise) water for initial fill.

    Another company would supply compressed nitrogen to pressurise conventional expansion tank.

    Are these tricks? Are they worth the effort?

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,467

    I think reaming was the hardest part of the hand threading of black iron I did. I was using a reamer in a brace. I have since switched to using a unibit in a drill, it does a great job of reaming steel or copper.

  • DCContrarian
    DCContrarian Member Posts: 547

    This is the one I've been using:

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07239SMTD I have to confess I haven't used them on a soil stack.

    PC7060
  • HydroNiCK
    HydroNiCK Member Posts: 185

    Many tricks I've tried have come out of desperation or lacking supplies like when taking apart a tough joint or radiator valve heat the joint and melt a candle into the threads. That leads to my second tip which is I always carry a spray bottle of CLR. Because it works a lot better than a candle. Spray the joint let it marinate a little and find that it comes apart a lot easier.

    Also, when I was an apprentice I remember a guy telling me that when you solder a wet joint...start at the top. Solder the top first because steam rises. You catch the top first quick before too much steam blows out your joint. Then hit the bottom which now takes the solder because there is less water dripping out since it rose to the already soldered top. I did it that way ever since.

  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,654

    Depends on how much room you have but I have used these ratcheting cutters in different sizes with success


    PC7060delcrossv
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,138

    Is that a sch#40 iron pipe cutter pictured above? Looks like a copper tubing cutter. Do they make an iron pipe cutter in that design?

  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,313
    edited September 8

    not that I’ve found. Following up on @DCContrarian suggestion; the titanium blades cut through the schedule 40 pretty well but you should budget for 1 blade for one maybe two 1” SCH 40 pipes cuts. Definitely workable and great for tight spots.
    I also tried the porta-band saw recommended by @EBEBRATT-Ed using a borrowed 5” Dewalt DCS374B saw. Very smooth cut, downside is the size limits its use in tight spaces since you need about 10” clear access to one side of pipe. Between the two methods you get the job done in pretty much any space.
    😎

  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,804

    Probably more info than the common worker needs- I’m a bit nutty with pvc and keeping the purple primer looking neat. How to apply is a different topic. This is about the cans of primer and glue.

    If you don’t have a plan going yet- you need to dump half the can of purple primer. Running a full can of primer is asking for a mess. Takes too long to get the excess off the dauber.

    Glue-cement: not so much an issue, but no need to keep the can filled.

    We have a tiny section on a work bench with a funnel and quarts of glue and primer. When the primer gets too low, we fill it back to the halfway point. Same with glue (but fill it a smidge more in the glue can)

    We even have scraps of pvc pipe laying around to “test” the primer (look at the color, is it a nice purple or is it getting dingy). When the primer gets too dirty or dingy we toss the contents and add fresh stuff to the can.

    yes- eventually the cans get tossed, duabers break, etc. We simply grab new cans off the shelf, dumping fresh contents back into the “quart” cans.

    We use pint cans for 1 1/2” and up, and 1/2 pint cans for smaller pipe.

    When the glue gets old and congealed, we scoop it out with a flattened piece of copper pipe. And refresh with the larger cans

    This process takes mere minutes.
    Remember- purple is for pros😀

    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    DCContrarianrick in AlaskaSlamDunkPC7060
  • DCContrarian
    DCContrarian Member Posts: 547

    As it happens, I had the need to cut a cast iron drain pipe today, 2". In the name of assessing the quality of advice given on the internet, I decided to make the first cut with my oscillating tool. I used the titanium blade and plenty of oil. I timed myself, it took just under 13 minutes. Getting the cut started took a long time, once I was through and could hold the blade perpendicular to the wall of the pipe it went pretty quickly. For the sake of comparison I made a second cut with a Sawzall, that was 28 seconds, including the time to stop and start the timer app. So the oscillating tool can definitely cut it, but I'd say it's a last resort when nothing else will fit.

    This is what the inside of the pipe looked like. A little Drano should clear that up, right?

    PC7060
  • Dave Carpentier
    Dave Carpentier Member Posts: 618

    When gluing pipe, mark your seated line and wrap some tape just past that to give you a clean glue edge. When wrapping the tape, fold a bit of the end over on itself to act as a removal tab to grab.

    30+ yrs in telecom outside plant.
    Currently in building maintenance.
    GWCLamb