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TTT, teflon tape tips

hot_rod
hot_rod Member Posts: 23,385
edited August 2023 in Radiant Heating
Problems arise when the tape ends up inside the pipe as well as outside. We see "shards" in pumps, valves, strainers, etc.
The key is to start the tape one or two threads back from the end of the male thread. Not off the end like the right side of this nipple shown. Starting back a thread keeps it from getting inside and causing headaches.

Some plumbers put a coating of pipe dope over the tape. Some plumbers put pipe dope then teflon tape. Some plumbers tape the male thread and tread dope inside the fitting.
The tape should work fine by itself.
Different stokes for different folks.

I don't know there is a huge difference in tape color other than a visual. The stainless steel specific tape seems to have a coating of something like anti seize.

Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream
Mad Dog_2

Comments

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,929
    Is the yellow tape just a minimum thickness? Is blue monster blue tape and yellow tape the same but blue hasn't gone through an additional testing process?
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,385
    Could be the blue is a thicker tape also? Some brands advertise two wraps is all you need with the thicker versions
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,518
    The first generation Teflon Tape I used, Dupont?? Was thick and high quality.  Then all we got was thin shredding garbage tape until Blue Monster Came along. The first time I used Teflon tape in 1986, Jimmy O' Brien (Dubliner) chastised me : "Son...for @."  I was on my 10th turn...ha ha 😂 🤣 .  

    I always use dope over the tape also.  I know one VG plumber who puts Tape, wick, tape, dope on all his wet joints!  Crazy, but he swears by it and they don't leak.  Mad Dog 🐕 
    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,789
    Mad Dog_2 said:

    I know one VG plumber who puts Tape, wick, tape, dope on all his wet joints!  Crazy, but he swears by it and they don't leak.  Mad Dog 🐕 

    How does that even work??? Wouldn't that be like ¼" thick?
    Mad Dog_2Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,385
    Supposedly any teflon approved for gas is supposed to be a higher density material. Some white colored stuff claims to be gas approved. Im not sure who confirms that?

    There is an ANSI standard for tapes., shown on this brand

    Then there is the thicker tape like Mil Rose
    This is both higher density, thicker and yellow colored which seem to be an industry standard color for fuel gas piping
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,518
    I think its ridiculous, but every artist 🎨 has their touch...that's his....Not hurting any one or anything.  Mad Dog 🐕 
    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,789
    My interest is purely mechanical. The image in my mind is a big wad of stuff that gets pushed off as the threads make up, but that can't be right, right?
    Mad Dog_2LRCCBJ
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,929
    ratio said:

    My interest is purely mechanical. The image in my mind is a big wad of stuff that gets pushed off as the threads make up, but that can't be right, right?

    no, that's mostly what will happen
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,518
    He doesn't use a lot of tape or wick so it doesn't look as bad as you'd think.  Mad Dog 🐕 
    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,214
    edited August 2023
    I've never heard of any kind of thread sealant (approved for gas, water, etc. or not approved) not working or deteriorating over time and leaking. You'd think it would get a lot of press.

    Maybe even peanut butter would work; chunky or smooth.
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    hot_rodmattmia2
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,635
    Blue Monster (blue tape) in their video says that it can be use on Nat gas, however, I don't see that on their written literature of what it can be used for. Maybe the container says so? Building Inspectors expect to see yellow tape and using yellow tape saves an explanation.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,385
    You could buy and download ANSI LC7 and see specifically what that standard and listing is about. It appears on that MilRose tape.

    I suspect like most everything it will depend on the inspector of the day. Of if a locale specifically forbids it.
    Here is a NC fire Marshall opinion.

    https://www.ncosfm.gov/fuel-gas/40393-thread-compounds-and-ptfe-tape/open
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    HomerJSmith
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,929
    You could also look at what spec the fuel gas code requires.
  • dko
    dko Member Posts: 668
    edited August 2023
    Gas teflon (yellow) is much more dense.

    Mill Rose 3 Wrap Yellow
    Composition: 99.0% PTFE 1.0% Pigment
    Color: Yellow
    Thickness: 0.004" +/-10%
    Density: 1.5g/cm3 +/-10%

    Mill Rose Blue Monster
    Composition 99.6% PTFE 0.4% Pigment
    Color: Blue
    Thickness 0.0035" +/- 10%
    Density 0.8g/cm3


    Less than 1.0 specific gravity will float in water


    Blue monster is really just average/standard PTFE tape. But they are consistent.
    White 100% ptfe tape with good density is "better."

    See Merco PTFE tape M55 and M77 full density. Most guys who use this never go back to blue monster.

    Blue is just a pigment, no benefit to sealing/lubricating whatsoever.

    GGross
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,635
    As my lawyer Bro says, "Anything not prohibited is allowed."
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,929
    I like that blue monster comes in like a 1000' roll. I don't want a 10 pack of rolls with like 6' on each roll.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,315
    I've been using this at work a lot.

    It's much thicker and.... Harder? If that makes any sense than blue monster.

    But it's white.


    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

  • dko
    dko Member Posts: 668
    ChrisJ said:

    I've been using this at work a lot.

    It's much thicker and.... Harder? If that makes any sense than blue monster.

    But it's white.

    because it is!
    3.2-3.8mil
    1.2-1.55 g/cm3
    white because it's 100% ptfe


    spec and sticker is nearly identical to the Merco. I'm guessing the same manufacturer






    ChrisJ
  • george_42
    george_42 Member Posts: 123
    When I was a lab assistant in a chemical lad , I visited the Dupont research lab in Delaware with my boss . We visited with a researh directo and he showed us a material that they just accidentially discovered while looking for something else. They named if TEFLON and thought maybe it could be use to seal threads on pipe as wel as other thngs.
    ethicalpaulrick in Alaska
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,385
    dko said:

    ChrisJ said:

    I've been using this at work a lot.

    It's much thicker and.... Harder? If that makes any sense than blue monster.

    But it's white.

    because it is!
    3.2-3.8mil
    1.2-1.55 g/cm3
    white because it's 100% ptfe


    spec and sticker is nearly identical to the Merco. I'm guessing the same manufacturer






    I've never noticed the pressure limitation before. So only downstream of LP first stage regs :)
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,929
    I notice one has a US flag on it but does not say made in the usa.
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,662
    Gorton doesn't say made in the USA either, but this stuff appears to be unless they are lying on their data sheet:

    https://tds.mercotape.com/Merco/TDS/TDS Merco Threadmaster(R) PTFE Tapes.pdf

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,443
    Interesting the label limits to pipe less that 1.5”. 
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,518

    I prefer Blue Monster 1/2" wide for ALL sized pipe. Pin down one end with your left thumb 👍. Pull tight, wind around tightly clockwise. 4 -5 turns Mad Dog

    Consulting by Mad Dog & Matt Jr.
    ethicalpaulPC7060Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,474
    edited August 12

    Someone can prove me wrong, but I have never seen a code that required the use of Yellow Teflon tape on gas.

    I also find it ironic that Teflon tape has been banned for use on fuel oil for probably 40 years now where it's use on gas is not become an issue. It's the same old "gets inside the pipe issue"

    For me the most important thing in any piping system is that it doesn't leak. Teflon tape with some kind of dope (no, not the installer) is pretty popular with most in the trade.

    If I don't want leaks, I use Teflon unless prohibited

    ethicalpaul
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,315
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1807890#Comment_1807890

    I've also seen guys mention that pipe dope with Teflon isn't allowed to be used with fuel oil as well. And yet, all of the chemical compatibility charts I see for PTFE list diesel as being excellent and fuel oil as being good.

    There's very few things out there that aren't compatible with PTFE.

    https://www.calpaclab.com/teflon-ptfe-compatibility/

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

    ethicalpaul
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,474

    @ChrisJ

    Not about compatibility. Teflon works great on oil we used it all the time. But around 1980??? The way I heard it the oil pump mfg. decided that pumps returned under warranty the fittings had been turned in too tight and damaged the pumps. Also, they found Teflon in the pump strainers because people put Teflon up to the end of the nipples instead of starting 2 threads back. So they eventually got it in the codes.

    Could be wrong but that is what I remember.

    mattmia2

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