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Pro Press M12 and 1 1/4

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offdutytech
offdutytech Member Posts: 133
in Radiant Heating
So had a boiler install Monday which turned into a nightmare. After a 3 hour delay getting a new boiler delivered after it was late and damaged we started. Supply and return at near boiler was 1 1/4" copper. No problem we will just use the propress and Viega fittings. Easy enough right? Half the 1 1/4" fittings leaked after pressure test. We properly prepped the pipe ream / de burr and inspected the fittings. Just puzzled at its a fitting issue, tool issue or human error. 
The tool had been in a cold van below 30 Deg overnight along with fittings. We did let the tool warm up for 4 hours before even starting to use it.  The house was in the 50 Deg range during the install. We had no issue with fittings 1/2 to 1". Is 1 1/4" a bit much for M12? What have your experiences or tricks do you guys have with the M12 using 1 1/4" ? Im leaning that a M18 would be a better tool for that size?

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  • archibald tuttle
    archibald tuttle Member Posts: 1,085
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    send pictures. minor leaks under air pressure? vaguely how many cycles on the M12 and die? whose fittings? viega brand? can't get on site solution but those guys are all here in vegas. if you think you were at the limits of the tool I can hit up the milwaukee guys at the show to ask but the more info i have about all conditions the better. I'm on an M18 and never a leaker yet up to 2". I was considering getting the M12 for smaller work because I have that battery for other tools so i'm self interested as well as trying to get answers fr u..
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,002
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    A squeeze is a squeeze, no matter if it's on a M12 or M18. If the tool completes it's cycle, it should be good to go.
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    I have 1.25” jaws with my M12 and I’ve never had a problem using them. Even under more severe conditions than what you described.

    I’d say your tool needs servicing.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    offdutytechSTEVEusaPARich_49
  • offdutytech
    offdutytech Member Posts: 133
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    I wasn't counting the cycles I got out of one battery. The jaw had maybe one fitting cycle and was new as we haven't had the chance to use it. 
    Here are the fittings I purchased from Supply House.
    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Viega-77032-1-1-4-Propress-Copper-90-Elbow-PxP

    Here are the pics. Before and after filling the new boiler pipes. House is on well water run through a softener. The ground water was below 50 deg anywhere in the 45-48 Deg range. 

    I have used the larger press tool on 1 1/2 at a different company with no issues like you have said. Just trying to figure out what is going on. 


  • rsilvers
    rsilvers Member Posts: 182
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    If you have calipers you can see if the tube is undersized.
  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,159
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    Only time I’ve had problems were caused by slight corrosion or dirt in the compression jaws. Using a scotchbrite pad to clean the recessed portion of jaws to a satin shine resolved the issue. 
  • offdutytech
    offdutytech Member Posts: 133
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    Good point on the Copper and will double check the jaws 
    PC7060
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,525
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    @offdutytech

    I will repeat something that I posted on here a couple of times before. We propressed at our shop for about 7 years with no leaks.

    We then did a job with fan coil units and had every size of copper from 3/4-2" Pressed them all with the same tool. We had about 5 2" joints out of 15 leak. Not knowing if it was the tool, fittings or tubing and we were in a rush to get it done we cut out the 2" leakers and got sweat fittings and soldered it all.

    Sent the bad stuff to Viega. They claimed the 2" tubing was made in England (it was) and said it was out of round with a dip in the tubing where the seam is that the crip couldn't take up .

    Propress has it's place but I would rather solder if I have a choice.
  • offdutytech
    offdutytech Member Posts: 133
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    Im with you on soldering guys! Def got burned on this one. In the future will prob just press for service related items and for system shut off valves during change outs when soldering sucks.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,525
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    Press is fantastic until you have an issue. And everyone has an issue with it sooner or later. After you have to waste out a bunch of expensive press fittings the fun goes out of it pretty quick. Can't be beat for quick repairs especially wet ones
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    @tommay
    I’m very good with the torch, but I started using PP over a dozen years ago and I’ve only had four leaks out of thousands done. That includes solar, hot and chilled water, potable, gas, the whole gambit. None of those were the fault of the press system. All were user error or an unseen flaw in the pipe.

    As for solder, neither myself nor anyone else can honestly say they’ve had that high of a success ratio. But no one wants to talk about that when comparing the two methods.

    Can I ask: do you own a PP or have you had extensive experience using one?
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    STEVEusaPA
  • offdutytech
    offdutytech Member Posts: 133
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    Happy to report that the copper tubing was my issue. The one stick that I used had a seam from manufacturing that was causing the press fittings not to seat correctly on that spot. We used a press fitting on the old copper with no issues. When there was a def a difference in the 30 year old plus copper from the stuff I purchased this week. Lesson learned check the copper better prior to install. Both soldering and press have their place. Seems like we are battling product quality issues these days with fittings and pipe. 
    Ironman
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    Yeah, we’re getting pipe and fittings from places like Sri Lanka and Pakistan.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • offdutytech
    offdutytech Member Posts: 133
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    The copper was from Vietnam this time 
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
    edited February 2022
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    I have mixed emotions about all the stuff in our trade that comes from Asia. I’m glad that poor, backward third world countries can provide jobs and industry for their people...but not at our expense with substandard materials that we paid fair market value for!

    I’d go back to your supplier with what’s left of the defective materials and give them a bill for the time and materials it cost you to fix it. And I’d be very vocal to upper management that you won’t buy from them unless the get decent materials.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,580
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    I love my propress. I convinced my employer to buy it to use at work so we dont have to fill out burn permits. I mostly use it on my house which can catch fire if I'm not careful with the torch. Why not? I shouldnt use it at work if i wouldnt use it at home.; ).

    I have made, and have found by others, failed sweated fittings.
    pecmsg
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,525
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    Same issue I posted on above. In my case the tubing was from England. After that I told our supplier I wan't all "domestic Pipe" Of course it costs more.

    The big suppliers are used to this (smaller ones may not) because some jobs for the Feds you have to supply all domestic material...........or are supposed to

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