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Solder

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mattmia2
mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,672
in THE MAIN WALL
What lead free solder do you like for copper pipe? I know there was some discussion in another thread where it turned in to someone asking about how to solder something, but I can't seem to find that thread.
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  • BenDplumber
    BenDplumber Member Posts: 49
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    Taramet/Worthington Sterling solder. Oatey 5 flux. Solder has low melting point if you are fighting water
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,708
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    I ended up buying a spool of Bridgit.

    Its good stuff.

    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Harris-BRGT61-Bridgit-1-8-x-1lb-Spool-of-Solder?gclid=Cj0KCQiA0MD_BRCTARIsADXoopZaewZhsa4tm98d7z3nA7gnjLgwP-Atuz-kgdxI3Ktiw31DhNBqtXUaAmwSEALw_wcB
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,861
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    Stay Brite #8
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,672
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    mapp gas which apparently is no longer mapp gas..
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,545
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    Silva-Brite solder. NO Karode self tinning flux.

    I won't use anything else.....unless I don't have a choice
    Intplm.
  • BillyO
    BillyO Member Posts: 277
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    Canfield
  • BenDplumber
    BenDplumber Member Posts: 49
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    Like anything in life, location is everything. Obviously you can purchase anything in the world with the internet but certain manufacturers only serve a given area. Pick what are good sellers in your jurisdiction. Bridget silva-brite stay brite all great selections. No korrode flux or Silva brite is not a big seller in my parts of the country but I trust my comrades in what they recommend. If it's sold in your local supply house use it
    STEVEusaPA
  • Robert_25
    Robert_25 Member Posts: 527
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    Oatey Safefo solder and Nokorode flux.
  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
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    Staybrite #8 with Nokorode flux. That’s all I used last 20 plus years in the trenches. 
    Steve Minnich
  • Lard
    Lard Member Posts: 115
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    Bridgit using nokorrode flux for most work, also used Stay-Brite 8 when doing the copper returns at the church.  Both flow nice, did up to 2” fittings with (fake) MAP/PRO torch nicely. I do use 50/50 lead when repairing Gortons since it takes less heat and fuss to flow the cover joint, so less risk of cooking the innards.

    I still buy 60/40 rosin core by the 2lb spool for my electrical needs.  It cannot be beat for touching up cold solder joints or doing component replacement on circuit boards. I have used it since I was eight years old when my father taught me to solder no dain bramage tat I cAn smell.
    GordoPC7060Mosherd1
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,861
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    ChrisJ said:


    Steve Minnich said:

    Staybrite #8 with Nokorode flux. That’s all I used last 20 plus years in the trenches. 

    What about above ground?

    What about it?
    Intplm.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,708
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    pecmsg said:
    Steve Minnich said:
    Staybrite #8 with Nokorode flux. That’s all I used last 20 plus years in the trenches. 
    What about above ground?
    What about it?

    I think the joke went over your head. 
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Intplm.GroundUp
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,628
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    Drax said:

    Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are too fast, I would catch it.

    :lol::lol::lol:
    MaxMercy
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,158
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    A potpourri of solder and flux.
    The green label flux has some solder ground into it, so it pre-tins a bit. 97-3 for solar and if I have to do to connections close together, art projects mostly.
    And a roll of 1/16" for fine art work.
    50/50 flows nicely and melts at a lower temperature, it caps a loose fitting nicely..

    Supposedly those solder rings and pre-tinning flux should be all you need, I've never been successful with that method :)
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,970
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    Silva-Brite solder used with Nokarode self tinning flux has been great. The solder rarely bubbles or pops when soldering. I especially like the flux because no matter the conditions the flux turns gray on the pipe when ready to start soldering and it doesn't smoke a lot.
    The smoke alarm doesn't turn on as easily as it would when other types of flux are used.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,708
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    I have both nokarode tinning and oatey tinning flux and both seem to work good but I felt the oatey was a little better.

    The Bridgit just seems to flow really nice in general.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Intplm.
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    The better you get the less you depend on “what solder is best”. Just keep doing it and learn. The best solder on earth won’t help you in a jam (in a tight spot, water is trickling, large fitting) 
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    Larry Weingartenfenkel
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,672
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    GW said:

    The better you get the less you depend on “what solder is best”. Just keep doing it and learn. The best solder on earth won’t help you in a jam (in a tight spot, water is trickling, large fitting) 

    Or i said remember to take it apart and flux the pipe 100 times to my self before sweating the connection to the old work up in an awkward corner but still forgot to flux the pipe.


  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,672
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    ChrisJ said:


    GW said:

    The better you get the less you depend on “what solder is best”. Just keep doing it and learn. The best solder on earth won’t help you in a jam (in a tight spot, water is trickling, large fitting) 

    Oh I'm going to pay for this....I almost can't even type it.

    But that's what shark bites are for.     :D

    you misspelled compression fitting or flare fitting
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    Ahh yes forgetting the flux, it happens 
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    MaxMercy
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,855
    edited January 2021
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    Trident on small leaks Bazooka on larger leaks, Sometimes just a small container under the leak is all you need

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
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    I have a roll of 1/16th #8 that I use on 1/2” fittings. 
    Above and below ground. 
    Steve Minnich
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,855
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    The company that purchased my customer list and service contracts has the best answer in my humble opinion. ProPress. They negotiated a lower insurance rate based on the minimal use of a torch in homes and commercial buildings. Water seepage is not an issue. Large or small piping is not an issue. No need for a heat shield on that closet to the floor joist connection. Time-saving on multiple connections of same-size copper

    I would look for a second-hand kit on eBay or Craig's list or a local pawn shop.

    You still need to practice soldering techniques. The more you do it the better you will get. Cleaning, flux, and temperature just right and you can make anything flow.

    Good luck & Happy New Year

    Mr. Ed.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    Intplm.YoungplumberZman
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    Ed that’s the double edged sword though. If a newb relies on pro press then how’s he gonna unjam himself in a tight spot (where the machine doesn’t fit)? Ok ok that was a rhetorical question 😊. And or, the grizzled old school guy will simply March on a job the pp guy can’t do 
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,672
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    there is a thread here from maybe 10 years ago about antifreeze seeping out of propresses.

    I would use proppex before propress. both get prohibitively expensive if you're building something where you're stringing a dozen fittings together
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,708
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    Uponor propex is the way I went for my more recent stuff.

    I used type K with hammer flare and pack joint for my new service line but everything else I did pex a.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,708
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    Youngplumber said:
    @ChrisJ do you trust pex a over a lifetime? It's only guaranteed for 25 years. I guess it doesn't matter much as 25 years might be as long as someone plans to live in a certain house. I just wonder why they will only say it lasts 25 years. Does it turn into pure carcinogens? Lol
    From what I recall the expected life was similar to copper.

    I obviously trust it enough to bury it in my walls.

    Others trust it enough to bury it in concrete.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,708
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    Youngplumber said:
    @ChrisJ if it's buried in concrete for a radiant loop and turns into pure cancer in 25 years I don't the the slab will mind the needed chemotherapy. Copper is a mineral and I don't think it turns into a pumkin.

    Keep in mind I'm half joking. I do wonder about longevity though. 
    Copper develops pin holes in many areas where pex would be completely fine.  Ask @DanHolohan

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    mattmia2
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,708
    edited January 2021
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    Youngplumber said:
    @ChrisJ I think we're talking past each other. Potable water vs hydronic loops. Hydronic loops are no concern for pex its the best tool for that job. Potable water is what I'm talking about, past 25 years, I don't trust it. That's all.
    I too was talking potable.
    @mattmia2 mentioned propex so I responded.

    I try to go by statistics not opinions.  You know what they say about opinions.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Canucker
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,855
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    100,000 years from now, after all the copper, concrete and cast iron has broken down into dust, the archaeologists will discover these plastic tubes next to the plastic milk containers and wonder what type of animal excreted this indestructible substance.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    ChrisJMaxMercyIntplm.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,672
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    so you're saying i should use the ep fittings?
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,708
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    mattmia2 said:
    so you're saying i should use the ep fittings?
    Oddly enough I had originally planned on all brass and changed to EP.  The claims are they hold up better.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,708
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    Youngplumber said:
    One good thing about pex only people from this forum would think about stealing it from the job site. Ha ha
    I do not believe many, if any from this forum would steal materials.

    Your sense of humor is a bit odd.

    Perhaps your nickname is accurate and you have a lot to learn.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,306
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    Hi, Just to add to the discussion, you'll see here: https://www.uponor-usa.com/en/customer-support/faq that PEX was introduced into the European market in 1972. I was not able to find much evidence of it failing. Here: https://www.pexuniverse.com/pex-myth-and-facts they are saying "average life expectancy of 40-50 years."
    PEX is less scary to me than PVC as it has little or no plasticizer in it to leach out and do bad things to living beings. I think that as it's track record grows longer, manufacturers will likely be willing to offer longer warranties, if it helps with sales.

    @EdTheHeaterMan , I hope the archaeologists 100,000 years from now will figure out what books are so they can read up on how the PEX was actually created! :D

    Yours, Larry
    ChrisJ
  • BillyO
    BillyO Member Posts: 277
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    I have snowmelt systems that were built 15 years ago with pro press and no signs of any glycol leaking past o rings.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,158
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    One think to watch with pex is constantly circulated DHW loops. At 140, with high chlorine and velocity over 2 fps there seems to be some tube failures. I think all the pex brands are putting tight requirements on dhw recirculation installations.
    How many plumbers actually know or calculate velocity in their recirc loops?
    More often than not recirc pumps are oversized, often grossly so. Same issues with copper and PPT on high temperature high chlorine systems.
    All piping materials have pros and cons.

    The oldest materials I have seen still in use are galvanized steel :)
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    ChrisJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,708
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    hot_rod said:

    One think to watch with pex is constantly circulated DHW loops. At 140, with high chlorine and velocity over 2 fps there seems to be some tube failures. I think all the pex brands are putting tight requirements on dhw recirculation installations.
    How many plumbers actually know or calculate velocity in their recirc loops?
    More often than not recirc pumps are oversized, often grossly so. Same issues with copper and PPT on high temperature high chlorine systems.
    All piping materials have pros and cons.

    The oldest materials I have seen still in use are galvanized steel :)

    I would think welded 316 stainless steel pipe would hold up really well if anyone could afford it.

    I'm glad the last of my galvanized piping is finally gone.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Robert_25
    Robert_25 Member Posts: 527
    edited January 2021
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    ChrisJ said:



    I'm glad the last of my galvanized piping is finally gone.

    I removed the last of the galvanized pipe from my house this summer. Considering most of it was ~50 years old I would say it it did pretty well. The worst part was how heavy the pipe was. Between the pipe itself and the mineral deposits it felt like it was made of solid lead. The long straight sections had mineral buildup that reduced the ID to maybe 70% of new, but the galvanized tee that had some copper threaded into it was a different story...picture attached. After seeing that I am surprised the water flow/pressure in our house was not worse than it was.
    Solid_Fuel_Man

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