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Rebuilding valves

Boilershepherd
Boilershepherd Member Posts: 29
edited September 2020 in Strictly Steam
A customer wishes to have all his valves on the steam radiators to work. Some have been replaced with new equipment. Some won’t be so easy. Installed are Norwall packless valves. Is it possible to find the internal elements for rebuilding these rather than replacing them.?

Comments

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,695
    "Norwall" but as a former resident of a Norwalk this caught my eye :)
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • Boilershepherd
    Boilershepherd Member Posts: 29
    Darn auto correct.
    Norwall valves. 
    Thanks
    ethicalpaul
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,042
    Do these radiators have regular steam traps on the outlet?
  • Boilershepherd
    Boilershepherd Member Posts: 29
    They used to. At some point in the past, the system went from two pipe to one pipe.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,168
    Remember that if it's one pipe, the steam inlet valves must be either fully open or fully closed. If your tenants/occupants are fiddling with them, you will have problems...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,042
    If it is a one pipe, I don't see anything gained by rebuilding the old valves.
    Actually new valves may have more capacity for counter flow steam/condensate usage.
    It is surprising that the supply pipe is large enough for one pipe functions.
    ethicalpaulted_p
  • Boilershepherd
    Boilershepherd Member Posts: 29
    yes.
    All good points. The systems is a moderately sized house. The new valves leave an offset. Additionally, the riser cannot be reached easily to allow a back up wrench to bite either. Though, I have been able to open the old valve body. So, I have not played the old valve lottery often but I'm looking at my chances.
    Old house, craftsman style. Inlaid hard wood floors and original windows.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,574
    Is it a bellows type seal or is there just a packing at the bottom with the threads above in that cylinder?
  • Boilershepherd
    Boilershepherd Member Posts: 29
    From what i can see is the stem is segmented and the seal at the bottom is a soft gasket. the knob turns a short shaft which in turn turns another onto the seat. The valve is the 'packless' variety. Dry rusty bits fell out when I opened it. So I cannot know exactly how the valve is originally fitted.
  • luketheplumber
    luketheplumber Member Posts: 149
    Why in the world would someone convert a two pipe system to a one pipe?
    I just earned my GED and am looking for a apprenticeship with one of these steam gurus on this site!
  • If the original valves are not leaking, then leave them in place. If leaking, then maybe the pressure is too high. Install a vaporstat and more main venting.—NBC
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,168

    Why in the world would someone convert a two pipe system to a one pipe?

    Who knows. The world is a wonderful and mysterious place...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    ethicalpaulGrallertluketheplumber
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,574

    Why in the world would someone convert a two pipe system to a one pipe?

    Who knows. The world is a wonderful and mysterious place...
    Someone probably didn't know how to repair it or was tired of replacing steam traps that were being damaged from some other system problem. Could have been some odball non-trapped system that they didn't understand.
  • Motorapido
    Motorapido Member Posts: 307

    y

    Old house, craftsman style. Inlaid hard wood floors and original windows.

    Whatever you do, don't let them tear out the original windows to chase after the lie of energy-cost payback from new windows. I've read estimates ranging from 40-year to 100-year ROI from new windows, and that generously assumes that the new windows won't fail during that time period.

    luketheplumber
  • Boilershepherd
    Boilershepherd Member Posts: 29
    Thanks for all the advice and points of view.
    Just to circle back to my original question,
    Is it possible to find the internal elements to rebuild this type of valve?
    I’ve explored the interwebs but have found no sources. Where can a person look?
    Thanks again in advance.
  • Neild5
    Neild5 Member Posts: 166
    I am impressed that you removed the spud from the radiator without damaging it.
  • Joe_Dunham
    Joe_Dunham Member Posts: 52
    FYI-Packless can mean bellows or Spring loaded packing.
    mattmia2
  • ted_p
    ted_p Member Posts: 65
    edited September 2020

    Why in the world would someone convert a two pipe system to a one pipe?

    Who knows. The world is a wonderful and mysterious place...
    JUGHNE said:

    If it is a one pipe, I don't see anything gained by rebuilding the old valves.
    Actually new valves may have more capacity for counter flow steam/condensate usage.
    It is surprising that the supply pipe is large enough for one pipe functions.

    Makes me think of the Russian proverb:

    "The marvel is not that the bear dances well, but that the bear dances at all."
  • Boilershepherd
    Boilershepherd Member Posts: 29
    edited September 2020

    I disassembled a couple of the Norwall packless valves today. These were more or less near fossils. A spring is in the layers, I can see this. With these, hopefully, I can replace other valve stem assemblies once/if these get restored.
    I cannot find illustrations or images of the original parts. If one was to do it from scratch, what is the material of the packing one would use? Or the material for the washer at the seat?
  • Joe_Dunham
    Joe_Dunham Member Posts: 52
    The manufacturer may be Marsch