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Rebuilding valves

BoilershepherdBoilershepherd Member Posts: 16
edited September 14 in Strictly Steam
A customer wishes to have all his valves on the steam radiators to work. Some have been replaced with new equipment. Some won’t be so easy. Installed are Norwall packless valves. Is it possible to find the internal elements for rebuilding these rather than replacing them.?

Comments

  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Member Posts: 1,713
    "Norwall" but as a former resident of a Norwalk this caught my eye :)
    1 pipe Peerless 63-03L in Cedar Grove, NJ, coal > oil > NG
  • BoilershepherdBoilershepherd Member Posts: 16
    Darn auto correct.
    Norwall valves. 
    Thanks
    ethicalpaul
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Member Posts: 7,098
    Do these radiators have regular steam traps on the outlet?
  • BoilershepherdBoilershepherd Member Posts: 16
    They used to. At some point in the past, the system went from two pipe to one pipe.
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 13,202
    Remember that if it's one pipe, the steam inlet valves must be either fully open or fully closed. If your tenants/occupants are fiddling with them, you will have problems...
    Br. Jamie, osb

    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.

    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Member Posts: 7,098
    If it is a one pipe, I don't see anything gained by rebuilding the old valves.
    Actually new valves may have more capacity for counter flow steam/condensate usage.
    It is surprising that the supply pipe is large enough for one pipe functions.
    ethicalpaulted_p
  • BoilershepherdBoilershepherd Member Posts: 16
    yes.
    All good points. The systems is a moderately sized house. The new valves leave an offset. Additionally, the riser cannot be reached easily to allow a back up wrench to bite either. Though, I have been able to open the old valve body. So, I have not played the old valve lottery often but I'm looking at my chances.
    Old house, craftsman style. Inlaid hard wood floors and original windows.
  • mattmia2mattmia2 Member Posts: 1,727
    Is it a bellows type seal or is there just a packing at the bottom with the threads above in that cylinder?
  • BoilershepherdBoilershepherd Member Posts: 16
    From what i can see is the stem is segmented and the seal at the bottom is a soft gasket. the knob turns a short shaft which in turn turns another onto the seat. The valve is the 'packless' variety. Dry rusty bits fell out when I opened it. So I cannot know exactly how the valve is originally fitted.
  • luketheplumberluketheplumber Member Posts: 76
    Why in the world would someone convert a two pipe system to a one pipe?
    17 years old and wants to learn about steam and hot water heating
  • nicholas bonham-carternicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,169
    If the original valves are not leaking, then leave them in place. If leaking, then maybe the pressure is too high. Install a vaporstat and more main venting.—NBC
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 13,202

    Why in the world would someone convert a two pipe system to a one pipe?

    Who knows. The world is a wonderful and mysterious place...
    Br. Jamie, osb

    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.

    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
    ethicalpaulGrallertluketheplumber
  • mattmia2mattmia2 Member Posts: 1,727

    Why in the world would someone convert a two pipe system to a one pipe?

    Who knows. The world is a wonderful and mysterious place...
    Someone probably didn't know how to repair it or was tired of replacing steam traps that were being damaged from some other system problem. Could have been some odball non-trapped system that they didn't understand.
  • MotorapidoMotorapido Member Posts: 188

    y

    Old house, craftsman style. Inlaid hard wood floors and original windows.

    Whatever you do, don't let them tear out the original windows to chase after the lie of energy-cost payback from new windows. I've read estimates ranging from 40-year to 100-year ROI from new windows, and that generously assumes that the new windows won't fail during that time period.

    luketheplumber
  • BoilershepherdBoilershepherd Member Posts: 16
    Thanks for all the advice and points of view.
    Just to circle back to my original question,
    Is it possible to find the internal elements to rebuild this type of valve?
    I’ve explored the interwebs but have found no sources. Where can a person look?
    Thanks again in advance.
  • Neild5Neild5 Member Posts: 103
    I am impressed that you removed the spud from the radiator without damaging it.
  • Joe_DunhamJoe_Dunham Member Posts: 46
    FYI-Packless can mean bellows or Spring loaded packing.
    mattmia2
  • ted_pted_p Member Posts: 38
    edited September 27

    Why in the world would someone convert a two pipe system to a one pipe?

    Who knows. The world is a wonderful and mysterious place...
    JUGHNE said:

    If it is a one pipe, I don't see anything gained by rebuilding the old valves.
    Actually new valves may have more capacity for counter flow steam/condensate usage.
    It is surprising that the supply pipe is large enough for one pipe functions.

    Makes me think of the Russian proverb:

    "The marvel is not that the bear dances well, but that the bear dances at all."
  • BoilershepherdBoilershepherd Member Posts: 16
    edited September 23

    I disassembled a couple of the Norwall packless valves today. These were more or less near fossils. A spring is in the layers, I can see this. With these, hopefully, I can replace other valve stem assemblies once/if these get restored.
    I cannot find illustrations or images of the original parts. If one was to do it from scratch, what is the material of the packing one would use? Or the material for the washer at the seat?
  • Joe_DunhamJoe_Dunham Member Posts: 46
    The manufacturer may be Marsch
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