Rebuilding valves

Boilershepherd

A customer wishes to have all his valves on the steam radiators to work. Some have been replaced with new equipment. Some won’t be so easy. Installed are Norwall packless valves. Is it possible to find the internal elements for rebuilding these rather than replacing them.?

ethicalpaul

"Norwall" but as a former resident of a Norwalk this caught my eye

Boilershepherd

Darn auto correct.
Norwall valves. 

Thanks

JUGHNE

Do these radiators have regular steam traps on the outlet?

Boilershepherd

They used to. At some point in the past, the system went from two pipe to one pipe.

Jamie Hall

Remember that if it's one pipe, the steam inlet valves must be either fully open or fully closed. If your tenants/occupants are fiddling with them, you will have problems...

JUGHNE

If it is a one pipe, I don't see anything gained by rebuilding the old valves.
Actually new valves may have more capacity for counter flow steam/condensate usage.
It is surprising that the supply pipe is large enough for one pipe functions.

Boilershepherd

yes.
All good points. The systems is a moderately sized house. The new valves leave an offset. Additionally, the riser cannot be reached easily to allow a back up wrench to bite either. Though, I have been able to open the old valve body. So, I have not played the old valve lottery often but I'm looking at my chances.
Old house, craftsman style. Inlaid hard wood floors and original windows.

mattmia2

Is it a bellows type seal or is there just a packing at the bottom with the threads above in that cylinder?

Boilershepherd

From what i can see is the stem is segmented and the seal at the bottom is a soft gasket. the knob turns a short shaft which in turn turns another onto the seat. The valve is the 'packless' variety. Dry rusty bits fell out when I opened it. So I cannot know exactly how the valve is originally fitted.

luketheplumber

Why in the world would someone convert a two pipe system to a one pipe?

nicholas bonham-carter

If the original valves are not leaking, then leave them in place. If leaking, then maybe the pressure is too high. Install a vaporstat and more main venting.—NBC

Jamie Hall

luketheplumber said:

Why in the world would someone convert a two pipe system to a one pipe?

Who knows. The world is a wonderful and mysterious place...

mattmia2

Jamie Hall said:

luketheplumber said:

Why in the world would someone convert a two pipe system to a one pipe?

Who knows. The world is a wonderful and mysterious place...

Someone probably didn't know how to repair it or was tired of replacing steam traps that were being damaged from some other system problem. Could have been some odball non-trapped system that they didn't understand.

Motorapido

Boilershepherd said:

y

Old house, craftsman style. Inlaid hard wood floors and original windows.

Whatever you do, don't let them tear out the original windows to chase after the lie of energy-cost payback from new windows. I've read estimates ranging from 40-year to 100-year ROI from new windows, and that generously assumes that the new windows won't fail during that time period.

Boilershepherd

Thanks for all the advice and points of view.
Just to circle back to my original question,
Is it possible to find the internal elements to rebuild this type of valve?
I’ve explored the interwebs but have found no sources. Where can a person look?
Thanks again in advance.

Neild5

I am impressed that you removed the spud from the radiator without damaging it.

Joe_Dunham

FYI-Packless can mean bellows or Spring loaded packing.

ted_p

Jamie Hall said:

luketheplumber said:

Why in the world would someone convert a two pipe system to a one pipe?

Who knows. The world is a wonderful and mysterious place...

JUGHNE said:

If it is a one pipe, I don't see anything gained by rebuilding the old valves.
Actually new valves may have more capacity for counter flow steam/condensate usage.
It is surprising that the supply pipe is large enough for one pipe functions.

Makes me think of the Russian proverb:

"The marvel is not that the bear dances well, but that the bear dances at all."

Boilershepherd

I disassembled a couple of the Norwall packless valves today. These were more or less near fossils. A spring is in the layers, I can see this. With these, hopefully, I can replace other valve stem assemblies once/if these get restored.
I cannot find illustrations or images of the original parts. If one was to do it from scratch, what is the material of the packing one would use? Or the material for the washer at the seat?

Joe_Dunham

The manufacturer may be Marsch