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Soldering question

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Comments

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,572

    They solder fine but I usually get a leak at the threaded nut so I end up doping it or using teflon tape on it which I hate doing.

    Maybe it's just me and my bad luck. Others don't seem to complain

    I have found i have to really crank them down but they work ok.
  • MikeL_2
    MikeL_2 Member Posts: 486
    edited March 2020
    Union companion nuts are thin walled and because of that we're careful how we attach a wrench - always on the rear to avoid pinching the nut out of round - we do the same with metal tubular plumbing slip joint nuts.
    We solder, especially the new alloy Uponor adaptors, by heating the tubing first, and from two directions. On vertical joints, after preheating, we wipe any extra flux from the tubing; it helps prevent molten solder from running down a flux trail. We always wipe the solidified joint with a clean dry rag while it is still warm to remove excess flux, and then lightly polish each joint with a slightly abrasive pad.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,021
    There are better copper unions, Caleffi has variations with forged nuts, that use a gasket form the seal. Also some unions with integral checks. Those copper unions us a taper for a seal, a speck of dirt, solder, or any misalignment and they are hard to seal..

    If you do a lot on unions it is worth looking into a flare nut wrench like this. It doesn't distort the soft brass or copper nuts so much when you tighten them.

    This wrench fits most hydronic manifold nuts and TRV union nuts.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    SuperTech
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,583
    These are Elkhart from Supplyhouse.

    I've used them multiple times over the years and never had a leaker yet. That could change soon I suppose...
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,452
    @ChrisJ
    Elkhart may be fine.

    The supply houses here usually are all Nibco. Nibco makes a union similar to the ones you have and I could seldom tighten one of them and not have it leak. Nibco also make a heavier brass union and they are pretty good.

    My other favorite trick is to use too much solder and solder the union together :'(:'(:'(:'( Although I have cured myself of that.

    2" copper=2" of solder, 1" copper=1" of solder.

    I am sure I am not the only one that violates that rule
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,021

    @ChrisJ
    Elkhart may be fine.

    The supply houses here usually are all Nibco. Nibco makes a union similar to the ones you have and I could seldom tighten one of them and not have it leak. Nibco also make a heavier brass union and they are pretty good.

    My other favorite trick is to use too much solder and solder the union together :'(:'(:'(:'( Although I have cured myself of that.

    2" copper=2" of solder, 1" copper=1" of solder.

    I am sure I am not the only one that violates that rule

    I've soldered a fair share of copper unions together also, makes them 100% leak free.

    Bigger question, do you really need a union? Very easy to cut and couple copper tube should a repair or replacement ever be required :)

    Copper unions I put in the same category as dielectric unions, don't waste your time and money.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,452
    @hot_rod
    I agree and I think most feel that way. But there are circumstances where unions are nice......if they don't leak.
    SuperTech
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,572
    I have small flare nut wrenches for mostly automotive tubing but didn't think about there being bigger versions.

    I'm not sure I'd want to find out a copper union has a gasket in it when I'm trying to make an emergency repair late some weekend night.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,583
    > @hot_rod said:
    > (Quote)
    > I've soldered a fair share of copper unions together also, makes them 100% leak free.
    >
    > Bigger question, do you really need a union? Very easy to cut and couple copper tube should a repair or replacement ever be required :)
    >
    > Copper unions I put in the same category as dielectric unions, don't waste your time and money.

    Their going on each side of my Taco 006. So not really, but it could help one day.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Hap_Hazzard
    Hap_Hazzard Member Posts: 2,846
    Is anybody else using these to clean pipes for soldering?
    https://www.supplyhouse.com/3M-7447-PRO-Scotch-Brite-General-Purpose-Pro-Hand-Pads-20-box
    They're better than steel wool, and they don't leave splinters.
    Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • rick in Alaska
    rick in Alaska Member Posts: 1,457

    Is anybody else using these to clean pipes for soldering?
    https://www.supplyhouse.com/3M-7447-PRO-Scotch-Brite-General-Purpose-Pro-Hand-Pads-20-box
    They're better than steel wool, and they don't leave splinters.

    I only use open mesh sand cloth. I like to be able to clean the pipe by using a technique like buffing shoes. Using pads and the like puts too much strain on my wrists, and I can get a lot more done with the sand cloth.
    Rick
    mattmia2
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,021
    on old or really dirty tube, open mesh works well, and last longest. Bright color helps in dark crawlspaces :)

    These glove both clean the tube easily, protect from hot surfaces, and let you flick any drips off the solder.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,691
    Open mesh, hundred foot roll or whatever it is, I can’t imagine using anything else

    HR is right, I cannot believe how many times I lose a strip on a single job. But I find them at the end of the day.
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • Hap_Hazzard
    Hap_Hazzard Member Posts: 2,846
    I like the mesh too, but i mostly use it on my lathes. I like the ScotchBrite for cleaning metal without removing too much material.
    Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,583
    > @Hap_Hazzard said:
    > I like the mesh too, but i mostly use it on my lathes. I like the ScotchBrite for cleaning metal without removing too much material.

    If you don't mind me asking, what do you do for a living?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,452
    Open mesh because it can handle water. The other sandpaper stuff gets wet it's worthless.

    I like cutting cleaning brushes off there handles and chucking them in a drill
    mattmia2rick in Alaska
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,572
    edited March 2020
    Side note, a unibit does a great job of reaming pipe and tube.

    I like the inside brushes with the hex that go in a driver.

    I have issues with tendonitis in my arms and can't grip reamers and brushes and similar small things for very long
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,583
    edited March 2020
    mattmia2 said:

    Side note, a unibit does a great job of reaming pipe and tube.

    I like the inside brushes with the hex that go in a driver.

    I have issues with tendonitis in my arms and can't grip reamers and brushes and similar small things for very long

    You certainly don't want to use the older Whirspo Pex Expander I have then. I haven't tried 1" yet but 3/4" is lots of fun.........
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,572
    I have a I'm knockoff and was using 1". That day I had to make 10 joints I almost didn't make it. 1/2 is fine though.
    ChrisJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,583
    mattmia2 said:

    I have a I'm knockoff and was using 1". That day I had to make 10 joints I almost didn't make it. 1/2 is fine though.

    1/2" is fine, but 3/4 starts making you think who designed the torture device....
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,021
    I have one of these Mil-Rose kits, handy with a cordless drill, just don't overspeed them
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    mattmia2
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,583
    @hot_rod I sent you a friend request.
    You can delete it or ignore it if you want but I'd rather you didn't. :smile:
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,021
    I reuse copper fittings on my own projects all the time. I bought this reducing tee 35 years ago, used it 60 times :)

    A hole saw in a drill cleans the solder out of the inside.

    Soak it in some boiler condensate water to clean the outside.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    ratiomattmia2
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,021
    A couple tools I have always wanted for cleaning old copper for my art projects
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    GroundUp
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,572
    i never thought about a hole saw, i always used a round file and and heating and whacking on the bench and swearing
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,572
    I like the round wood blocks too.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,021
    mattmia2 said:

    i never thought about a hole saw, i always used a round file and and heating and whacking on the bench and swearing

    Yep, and a pocket knife.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    mattmia2
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,452
    My old boss was pretty cheap. A friend of his let him strip all the old copper out of a house they were tearing down.

    He had a ton of 1/2 & 3/4 copper elbows...the old cast brass type and he would reuse them.

    He would heat them up and slap them on a pipe without adding any solder "it's got enough solder in them already" he would say. Worked for him.

    Me, not so much
    CLamb
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,572
    yeah, that's gonna tin the whole surface of the pipe...
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,583
    I'm happy
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    mattmia2SeanBeans
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,572
    Wait, there were 3 pages on sweating 2 stops?
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,691
    He said he’s happy what, more do you want.
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    ChrisJSTEVEusaPA
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,583
    > @mattmia2 said:
    > Wait, there were 3 pages on sweating 2 stops?

    Not that I know of.
    Did you read the other pages?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,452
    Looks good!!
    ChrisJ