Soldering question

mattmia2

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

They solder fine but I usually get a leak at the threaded nut so I end up doping it or using teflon tape on it which I hate doing.

Maybe it's just me and my bad luck. Others don't seem to complain

I have found i have to really crank them down but they work ok.

MikeL_2

Union companion nuts are thin walled and because of that we're careful how we attach a wrench - always on the rear to avoid pinching the nut out of round - we do the same with metal tubular plumbing slip joint nuts.
We solder, especially the new alloy Uponor adaptors, by heating the tubing first, and from two directions. On vertical joints, after preheating, we wipe any extra flux from the tubing; it helps prevent molten solder from running down a flux trail. We always wipe the solidified joint with a clean dry rag while it is still warm to remove excess flux, and then lightly polish each joint with a slightly abrasive pad.

hot_rod

There are better copper unions, Caleffi has variations with forged nuts, that use a gasket form the seal. Also some unions with integral checks. Those copper unions us a taper for a seal, a speck of dirt, solder, or any misalignment and they are hard to seal..

If you do a lot on unions it is worth looking into a flare nut wrench like this. It doesn't distort the soft brass or copper nuts so much when you tighten them.

This wrench fits most hydronic manifold nuts and TRV union nuts.

ChrisJ

These are Elkhart from Supplyhouse.

I've used them multiple times over the years and never had a leaker yet. That could change soon I suppose...

EBEBRATT-Ed

@ChrisJ
Elkhart may be fine.

The supply houses here usually are all Nibco. Nibco makes a union similar to the ones you have and I could seldom tighten one of them and not have it leak. Nibco also make a heavier brass union and they are pretty good.

My other favorite trick is to use too much solder and solder the union together Although I have cured myself of that.

2" copper=2" of solder, 1" copper=1" of solder.

I am sure I am not the only one that violates that rule

hot_rod

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

@ChrisJ
Elkhart may be fine.

The supply houses here usually are all Nibco. Nibco makes a union similar to the ones you have and I could seldom tighten one of them and not have it leak. Nibco also make a heavier brass union and they are pretty good.

My other favorite trick is to use too much solder and solder the union together Although I have cured myself of that.

2" copper=2" of solder, 1" copper=1" of solder.

I am sure I am not the only one that violates that rule

I've soldered a fair share of copper unions together also, makes them 100% leak free.

Bigger question, do you really need a union? Very easy to cut and couple copper tube should a repair or replacement ever be required

Copper unions I put in the same category as dielectric unions, don't waste your time and money.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@hot_rod
I agree and I think most feel that way. But there are circumstances where unions are nice......if they don't leak.

mattmia2

I have small flare nut wrenches for mostly automotive tubing but didn't think about there being bigger versions.

I'm not sure I'd want to find out a copper union has a gasket in it when I'm trying to make an emergency repair late some weekend night.

ChrisJ

> @hot_rod said:
> (Quote)
> I've soldered a fair share of copper unions together also, makes them 100% leak free.
>
> Bigger question, do you really need a union? Very easy to cut and couple copper tube should a repair or replacement ever be required
>
> Copper unions I put in the same category as dielectric unions, don't waste your time and money.

Their going on each side of my Taco 006. So not really, but it could help one day.

Hap_Hazzard

Is anybody else using these to clean pipes for soldering?
https://www.supplyhouse.com/3M-7447-PRO-Scotch-Brite-General-Purpose-Pro-Hand-Pads-20-box
They're better than steel wool, and they don't leave splinters.

rick in Alaska

Hap_Hazzard said:

Is anybody else using these to clean pipes for soldering?
https://www.supplyhouse.com/3M-7447-PRO-Scotch-Brite-General-Purpose-Pro-Hand-Pads-20-box
They're better than steel wool, and they don't leave splinters.

I only use open mesh sand cloth. I like to be able to clean the pipe by using a technique like buffing shoes. Using pads and the like puts too much strain on my wrists, and I can get a lot more done with the sand cloth.
Rick

hot_rod

on old or really dirty tube, open mesh works well, and last longest. Bright color helps in dark crawlspaces

These glove both clean the tube easily, protect from hot surfaces, and let you flick any drips off the solder.

GW

Open mesh, hundred foot roll or whatever it is, I can’t imagine using anything else

HR is right, I cannot believe how many times I lose a strip on a single job. But I find them at the end of the day.

Hap_Hazzard

I like the mesh too, but i mostly use it on my lathes. I like the ScotchBrite for cleaning metal without removing too much material.

ChrisJ

> @Hap_Hazzard said:
> I like the mesh too, but i mostly use it on my lathes. I like the ScotchBrite for cleaning metal without removing too much material.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you do for a living?

EBEBRATT-Ed

Open mesh because it can handle water. The other sandpaper stuff gets wet it's worthless.

I like cutting cleaning brushes off there handles and chucking them in a drill

mattmia2

Side note, a unibit does a great job of reaming pipe and tube.

I like the inside brushes with the hex that go in a driver.

I have issues with tendonitis in my arms and can't grip reamers and brushes and similar small things for very long

ChrisJ

mattmia2 said:

Side note, a unibit does a great job of reaming pipe and tube.

I like the inside brushes with the hex that go in a driver.

I have issues with tendonitis in my arms and can't grip reamers and brushes and similar small things for very long

You certainly don't want to use the older Whirspo Pex Expander I have then. I haven't tried 1" yet but 3/4" is lots of fun.........

mattmia2

I have a I'm knockoff and was using 1". That day I had to make 10 joints I almost didn't make it. 1/2 is fine though.

ChrisJ

mattmia2 said:

I have a I'm knockoff and was using 1". That day I had to make 10 joints I almost didn't make it. 1/2 is fine though.

1/2" is fine, but 3/4 starts making you think who designed the torture device....

hot_rod

I have one of these Mil-Rose kits, handy with a cordless drill, just don't overspeed them

ChrisJ

@hot_rod I sent you a friend request.
You can delete it or ignore it if you want but I'd rather you didn't.

hot_rod

I reuse copper fittings on my own projects all the time. I bought this reducing tee 35 years ago, used it 60 times

A hole saw in a drill cleans the solder out of the inside.

Soak it in some boiler condensate water to clean the outside.

hot_rod

A couple tools I have always wanted for cleaning old copper for my art projects

mattmia2

i never thought about a hole saw, i always used a round file and and heating and whacking on the bench and swearing

mattmia2

I like the round wood blocks too.

hot_rod

mattmia2 said:

i never thought about a hole saw, i always used a round file and and heating and whacking on the bench and swearing

Yep, and a pocket knife.

EBEBRATT-Ed

My old boss was pretty cheap. A friend of his let him strip all the old copper out of a house they were tearing down.

He had a ton of 1/2 & 3/4 copper elbows...the old cast brass type and he would reuse them.

He would heat them up and slap them on a pipe without adding any solder "it's got enough solder in them already" he would say. Worked for him.

Me, not so much

mattmia2

yeah, that's gonna tin the whole surface of the pipe...

ChrisJ

I'm happy

mattmia2

Wait, there were 3 pages on sweating 2 stops?

GW

He said he’s happy what, more do you want.

ChrisJ

> @mattmia2 said:
> Wait, there were 3 pages on sweating 2 stops?

Not that I know of.
Did you read the other pages?

EBEBRATT-Ed

Looks good!!