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Hard start sizing?

Ok,
What's the deal with the 5-2-1 sizing?

For example, CSRU-1 is for "1-3 tons"
CSRU-2 is for 3.5 to 4-5 tons. So, 3.5 to 5 tons, but their labeling is weird.

On a 3 ton Copeland unit, is the CSRU-1 on the small size, and the 2 is on the big side? So, will either work? How does a 2 stage scroll which always starts in low stage play into it?


Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment

Comments

  • ratioratio Posts: 2,052Member
    Isn't there a factory hard start kit available for that unit? I'm sure it'd cost more, but I like to stay with factory kits, at least until the unit's out of warranty.
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 5,914Member
    I'm not an expert on this but in the old days the compressor mfg would offer a hard start kit consisting of a start relay and start capacitor. They would spec the relay and cap to use.

    Now, I guess everybody use's the "generic" kits. I guess there ok,
    I have use them and they are convienent
  • ratioratio Posts: 2,052Member
    FWIW, I put the l'il 5-2-1 kit on my brother's 22 yo 2 ton unit. It starts noticably faster.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,897Member
    edited July 2017
    Yep,

    Here's what they say.




    I think it's a mistake on their part, and it should say this.





    They show a 3.5 - 5 ton for my 3 ton unit, as wel as the 1-3 as an option, but only a 1-3 ton for a 4 ton unit? That makes no sense at all.

    Their part number points to those generic units.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,897Member
    Here's from their 18 SEER manual, which uses the same compressor.


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • ratioratio Posts: 2,052Member
    Maybe the same guy sized the hard start as sized the TXV?
  • unclejohnunclejohn Posts: 1,374Member
    Call copeland. I don't know what equipment manufacture your using but I would find another.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,897Member
    It starts with some authority now.




    It's not required, but I like it. I see no reason to make life on that motor harder than it has to be and sometimes, you want a little more phase shift.


    Speaking of,
    Anyone make good caps anymore? Or do they all suck?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • cjisndenialcjisndenial Posts: 2Member
    edited August 5
    Sorry to come back to this ancient thread, but I just encountered this same issue with my GSXC16 048. The charts above have been maintained even in the latest manual.



    @ChrisJ , your picture above looks exactly like my compartment, except there was a factory transformer where you hard start is. I had a 5-2-1 CSRU3 on-hand and it obviously wasn't going to fit, so I ordered a CSRU1 per manual. I pulled the factory transformer, connected the board to 24v from furnace's transformer then mounted the relay and CSRU1 (both upright) into the compartment. My RLA at startup went from 87 to 54 with the CSRU1. Lights dim a lot less.

    @ChrisJ , did you ever call Goodman and ask them what was up with the manual? I'm thinking they just realized they had no room left in the control box and so speced an undersized hardstart that they knew would fit safely. Did you also end up using the CSRU1 or is that a CSRU2 in your pic?
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,897Member
    > @cjisndenial said:
    > Sorry to come back to this ancient thread, but I just encountered this same issue with my GSXC16 048. The charts above have been maintained even in the latest manual.
    >
    >
    >
    > @ChrisJ , your picture above looks exactly like my compartment, except there was a factory transformer where you hard start is. I had a 5-2-1 CSRU3 on-hand and it obviously wasn't going to fit, so I ordered a CSRU1 per manual. I pulled the factory transformer, connected the board to 24v from furnace's transformer then mounted the relay and CSRU1 (both upright) into the compartment. My RLA at startup went from 87 to 54 with the CSRU1. Lights dim a lot less.
    >
    > @ChrisJ , did you ever call Goodman and ask them what was up with the manual? I'm thinking they just realized they had no room left in the control box and so speced an undersized hardstart that they knew would fit safely. Did you also end up using the CSRU1 or is that a CSRU2 in your pic?

    No I didn't.
    I also ended up removing the hardstart because it was making the 2 stage Ultratech start with a bang like sound. The Ultratech starts in low stage to make starting easier and I think that was the issue even though they list a hard start for it.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • pecmsgpecmsg Posts: 836Member
    Those one sized fits all are CRAP!

    Contact the compressor manufacture, they will have a true
    Start Relay
    Start Cap
    Run Cap
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,897Member
    pecmsg said:

    Those one sized fits all are CRAP!

    Contact the compressor manufacture, they will have a true
    Start Relay
    Start Cap
    Run Cap

    No need to contact Copeland, they have data sheets readily available online.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • cjisndenialcjisndenial Posts: 2Member
    >> I also ended up removing the hardstart because it was making the 2 stage Ultratech start with a bang like sound. The Ultratech starts in low stage to make starting easier and I think that was the issue even though they list a hard start for it.

    @ChrisJ, I've definitely not had that issue after installing the CSRU-1. Startup is definitely quieter at least for me. Weird that you had such a different experience.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,897Member
    > @cjisndenial said:
    > >> I also ended up removing the hardstart because it was making the 2 stage Ultratech start with a bang like sound. The Ultratech starts in low stage to make starting easier and I think that was the issue even though they list a hard start for it.
    >
    > @ChrisJ, I've definitely not had that issue after installing the CSRU-1. Startup is definitely quieter at least for me. Weird that you had such a different experience.

    Are you using it on a 2 stage Copeland Ultratech?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
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