Hard start sizing?

ChrisJ

Ok,
What's the deal with the 5-2-1 sizing?

For example, CSRU-1 is for "1-3 tons"
CSRU-2 is for 3.5 to 4-5 tons. So, 3.5 to 5 tons, but their labeling is weird.

On a 3 ton Copeland unit, is the CSRU-1 on the small size, and the 2 is on the big side? So, will either work? How does a 2 stage scroll which always starts in low stage play into it?

ratio

Isn't there a factory hard start kit available for that unit? I'm sure it'd cost more, but I like to stay with factory kits, at least until the unit's out of warranty.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I'm not an expert on this but in the old days the compressor mfg would offer a hard start kit consisting of a start relay and start capacitor. They would spec the relay and cap to use.

Now, I guess everybody use's the "generic" kits. I guess there ok,
I have use them and they are convienent

ratio

FWIW, I put the l'il 5-2-1 kit on my brother's 22 yo 2 ton unit. It starts noticably faster.

ChrisJ

Yep,

Here's what they say.




I think it's a mistake on their part, and it should say this.





They show a 3.5 - 5 ton for my 3 ton unit, as wel as the 1-3 as an option, but only a 1-3 ton for a 4 ton unit? That makes no sense at all.

Their part number points to those generic units.

ChrisJ

Here's from their 18 SEER manual, which uses the same compressor.

ratio

Maybe the same guy sized the hard start as sized the TXV?

unclejohn

Call copeland. I don't know what equipment manufacture your using but I would find another.

ChrisJ

It starts with some authority now.




It's not required, but I like it. I see no reason to make life on that motor harder than it has to be and sometimes, you want a little more phase shift.


Speaking of,
Anyone make good caps anymore? Or do they all suck?

cjisndenial

Sorry to come back to this ancient thread, but I just encountered this same issue with my GSXC16 048. The charts above have been maintained even in the latest manual.



@ChrisJ , your picture above looks exactly like my compartment, except there was a factory transformer where you hard start is. I had a 5-2-1 CSRU3 on-hand and it obviously wasn't going to fit, so I ordered a CSRU1 per manual. I pulled the factory transformer, connected the board to 24v from furnace's transformer then mounted the relay and CSRU1 (both upright) into the compartment. My RLA at startup went from 87 to 54 with the CSRU1. Lights dim a lot less.

@ChrisJ , did you ever call Goodman and ask them what was up with the manual? I'm thinking they just realized they had no room left in the control box and so speced an undersized hardstart that they knew would fit safely. Did you also end up using the CSRU1 or is that a CSRU2 in your pic?

ChrisJ

> @cjisndenial said:
> Sorry to come back to this ancient thread, but I just encountered this same issue with my GSXC16 048. The charts above have been maintained even in the latest manual.
>
>
>
> @ChrisJ , your picture above looks exactly like my compartment, except there was a factory transformer where you hard start is. I had a 5-2-1 CSRU3 on-hand and it obviously wasn't going to fit, so I ordered a CSRU1 per manual. I pulled the factory transformer, connected the board to 24v from furnace's transformer then mounted the relay and CSRU1 (both upright) into the compartment. My RLA at startup went from 87 to 54 with the CSRU1. Lights dim a lot less.
>
> @ChrisJ , did you ever call Goodman and ask them what was up with the manual? I'm thinking they just realized they had no room left in the control box and so speced an undersized hardstart that they knew would fit safely. Did you also end up using the CSRU1 or is that a CSRU2 in your pic?

No I didn't.
I also ended up removing the hardstart because it was making the 2 stage Ultratech start with a bang like sound. The Ultratech starts in low stage to make starting easier and I think that was the issue even though they list a hard start for it.

pecmsg

Those one sized fits all are CRAP!

Contact the compressor manufacture, they will have a true
Start Relay
Start Cap
Run Cap

ChrisJ

pecmsg said:

Those one sized fits all are CRAP!

Contact the compressor manufacture, they will have a true
Start Relay
Start Cap
Run Cap

No need to contact Copeland, they have data sheets readily available online.

cjisndenial

>> I also ended up removing the hardstart because it was making the 2 stage Ultratech start with a bang like sound. The Ultratech starts in low stage to make starting easier and I think that was the issue even though they list a hard start for it.

@ChrisJ, I've definitely not had that issue after installing the CSRU-1. Startup is definitely quieter at least for me. Weird that you had such a different experience.

ChrisJ

> @cjisndenial said:
> >> I also ended up removing the hardstart because it was making the 2 stage Ultratech start with a bang like sound. The Ultratech starts in low stage to make starting easier and I think that was the issue even though they list a hard start for it.
>
> @ChrisJ, I've definitely not had that issue after installing the CSRU-1. Startup is definitely quieter at least for me. Weird that you had such a different experience.

Are you using it on a 2 stage Copeland Ultratech?