Sears and Roebuck Boiler Questions

Ananda

Hi,

I just stumbled upon this website today while trying to learn more about my current heating system. I have a Hercules boiler- I believe it was converted from coal, to oil, and then gas. The house I live in was built sometime between 1890-1910, and I was wondering if anyone knows how old this model is?

I'd also like to know how efficient or inefficient they are. My brother and an HVAC guy who serviced it in the past both think I should keep it going until it fails. I figured it might be worth reaching out to see who else might have one, or who has worked on one, and gather more information about this Hercules in general and what their thoughts are on keeping it running versus modernizing??

I have steam heat with old-fashioned radiators.

Thank you

jesmed1

Here's a fun look at how to remove one of those, if you decide to replace it:

https://www.sopocottage.com/2019/05/bunny-suits-vs-hercules-who-will-win.html

Ananda

Fun?!? LOL Your renovations are so beautiful!

jesmed1

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1905468#Comment_1905468

Thanks, but that's not me, just a Google search result.

Steamhead

@Ananda , later Sears boilers were made by Dunkirk. Not sure if that one was since it's older. I'd say 1930s or 1940s on yours.

Where are you located? We might know someone near you who knows steam.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I agree with the 30s-40s

mattmia2

probably not super inefficient but a new boiler might be 15% more efficient. you can buy a lot of gas for the cost of a new boiler and the new boiler probably won't last 80+ years.

109A_5

You can buy a lot of gas for the cost of the old boiler's removal, a new boiler and its install.

No eye protection, this guy may leave the job with healthy lungs but with only one eye.

mattmia2

also be careful of that refractory disc on top of the conversion burner. they are kinda fragile and long ago unobtainable.

TheUpNorthState88

Definitely keep the boiler. There’s nothing better than these old original boilers and they are more efficient than people think.

I regularly get the “it’s 40% efficient” incorrect guess on my No. 7 Ideal boiler which is 90 years old. I bought my own combustion analyzer, it’s actually 72-75% efficient and my heating bills back that up. The talent just doesn’t exist like back then with the installation of that boiler. We have seen it here in the group countless times with newer installs. Just crappy install work and of course, people are here because it’s giving issues.

Yes, technically a new cast iron boiler would be slightly more efficient, but honestly, the cost to install, especially if your basement piping is asbestos covered (abatement will be needed) just is NOT going to be made up in the mild savings you will earn. And once again, the fact nothing lasts, you are lucky to make it 10 years with a new boiler. I’ve seen peoples boilers develop a crack in the cast iron section after 5 years. Keep that thing going and maintained.

Here is A Hercules Guide

https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/081khJkB19VdQQNj0b07z9kRw

@Erin Holohan Haskell

Feel free to add to the archive if one is not already uploaded. Thanks

Ananda

Thank you, everyone, for your feedback. And thank you @TheUpNorthState88 for the guidebook!

Steamhead

@Ananda @TheUpNorthState88 during World War II, when fuel was rationed, this type of boiler was often "baffled" when burning oil or gas. Baffling used bricks or other deflectors properly placed so the hot exhaust gases would contact the cast-iron instead of flowing through the middle of the flueways on the way out. This transferred more heat to the boiler water instead of having it go up the chimney, resulting in lower stack temperature and reduced fuel consumption.

One of the best discussions of this technique appears in the old Audel Oil Burner Guide, by Frank Graham. You can find copies on eBay- here is one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285870190262?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=285870190262&targetid=2450249296795&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9025326&poi=&campaignid=24181853928&mkgroupid=204814195412&rlsatarget=pla-2450249296795&abcId=10813847&merchantid=113269426&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=24181853928&gclid=CjwKCAjwlY3WBhANEiwApsNrLYjD4T8JplApTIuhfswR_NLv1eCR8Dvry7oa84QVXTOTpso7JMAcJBoCR_wQAvD_BwE

Note that this should be done by a pro with a combustion analyzer, to make sure baffling doesn't restrict the draft and cause poor combustion and CO.

After the war, a lot of these baffles were removed, likely by oil or gas suppliers who wanted to sell more fuel.

HeatingHelp.com

Thanks @TheUpNorthState88! We've shared it in our museum here:

https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/sears-roebuck-and-co-hercules-boiler-manual-1937/

Forever_Student

I have a quick question and I think this boiler convo is a perfect place to ask this question. Disclaimer: I don't have a boiler myself, and definitely not an old one as well built as these. My question is, are these old boilers hot to the touch? This goes for you to, @TheUpNorthState88, is your old boiler hot to the touch? Does the boiler room or basement get warm or even hot when the boiler is running?

I'm just thinking, if the boiler is hot, big if, then that's extra heat that's getting dumped into the space. If you could somehow insulate the boiler, like wrapping it in mineral wool, while being sure to leave openings around the intake and exhaust areas, you could capture that extra heat.

Then the question becomes whether that's really more or less efficient. If the boiler's in a basement, that extra heat will keep the basement warm and may eventually make its way generally up as "free" heat to the house. But if you insulate, and that "waste" heat goes right up the chimney, is it any more efficient?

My mother-in-law has a very small boiler room, maybe 300-400 cubic feet, with a 30-40 year old boiler, and in the winter, it's >90F, maybe >100F in that room.

Just a curious nobody asking questions…

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Forever_Student Most all boilers have insulation under the metal jacket. Some more than others.

TheUpNorthState88

@Forever_Student

My boiler does give off some heat to the basement. Sealed inside the metal jacket is asbestos which does keep the bulk of the heat inside heating the cast iron and transferring it to the water. The heat it gives off is perfectly fine because it’s inside the house’s envelope and heat rises so it stays where I want it, inside the house. My returned pipe lines are also uninsulated so that gives some extra heat to the basement from water that’s already traveling back to the boiler to be heated.

Newer boilers, especially high-efficiency wall-hung models don’t give off as much excess heat as these older boilers.

mattmia2

very old boilers were covered in asbestos furnace cement after they were installed to keep more heat in. boilers have 2 output ratings, one that assumes the heat that escapes the jacket goes in to the conditioned space, one that does not.

patrykrebisz

Just wanted to add that the "Audel Oil Burner Guide", by Frank Graham as linked above should be required reading for anyone new to steam heat.

ethicalpaul

After the war, a lot of these baffles were removed, likely by oil or gas suppliers who wanted to sell more fuel.

I'm shocked. SHOCKED!