2 pipe vapor style. Slow return issues
Comments
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the differential loop is just a loop of pipe connected to a fancy casting. you can make it with pipe and tees and ells, you just don't need it on a boiler with a burner you can control.
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it ain’t scrap metal fellas
THINK
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Is that a prehistoric boiler-mate?
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is that an old taco sidearm?
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I have no clue what it is yet. It’s a heat exchanger is all I’ve got…I know it’s killer though, some kind of dhw heating unit
THINK
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Have you ever cut one open?
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probably a sidearm water heater, it was piped in to the boiler and heated the water by gravity circulation. ones similar to that were some of taco's early products in say the 30's and 40's
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no but i have seen versions of this diagram. you can make this happen with a little thought and a number of fittings and nipples
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That Excelso is just what you thought- a side-arm water heater. Looking forward to more pics.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting
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The length of #20 is what makes the thing work. Its an internal brass tube that miraculously never clogs. The top tee has a tapped casting that connects it to the other side. There are also left handed threads involved. Those are never fun.
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no — there are several versions of it. It is dead simple, as the patent drawing @mattmia2 posted shows. Another version has all the tubes concentric, instead of side by side.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
Nice project Andy. Cornell is Outstanding in so many ways. We are very fortunate as New Yorkers to have them here. We used to bring Thoroughbreds from the Farm near Saratoga out to to Veterinary Emergency Center at Cornell...almost always in the wee hours of the morning....They do everything First Class...Looking foward to more pictures and progress reports....Mad Dog
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@Mad Dog_2 spot on sir. And thank you! Looking forward to debriefing all. Currently onsite. Rebuilding the last few radiators. Need to make a spot repair at an end of main/wet return area. Gonna send over some pics of eom setups and some Spencer pics. No differential loop exists today unfortunately…
the end of main setup shows before and after removing the check valve at the floor/wet return. The dry return is on the left and the steam supply is on the right. A dimension is written on the pipe
The dry return never had a vent until I got here. I teed into a radiator return in lieu of cutting it into the main. Experimentally testing.
the supply has always had the Hoffman 75 and a vacuum breaker on it. I haven’t removed or altered yetTHINK
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ol Spence is still tied in and the combustion chamber is full of newspaper clippings from July 43’ pretty slick
THINK
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this is the wm egh 115. Going to start it up in a few hours. Will check back
THINK
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Do the radiators still have their hoffman metering valves or some other brand of vapor valve or orifice plates?
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only a handful existed when I got here. I replaced any frozen valves with standard 3/4” angle stops and put a Barnes and jones 122 on every radiator
THINK
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just finished it’s first cycle. Steamed for 33 minutes before cycling off on vaporstat
6oz cut in 4 oz diffUnfortunately I do not yet have my low pressure gauge in hand so unable to verify operation.
Not a peep of hammer yet knock on wood
While steaming the water line of the boiler falls down to 1/2” below the lower yellow mark on the sight glass. And gently bobs there until vaporstat interrupted. Watching it now after the burner stopped and I can already tell condensate is returning quicker…
Static cold water line was at upper yellow, operational water line 1/2” below lower yellow
THINK
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Be very careful.
We get all kinds of calls from upstate NY looking for someone that knows steam.
You may end up with more work than you want.😎
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@EBEBRATT-Ed 😁😎 thanks everyone for your help. Besides you guys, I don’t have anyone I can call to lean on. I have Dan’s books, my senses and and some pipe wrenches. It means a lot to have a community for this work. I’ll post some pics of the install next week.
THINK
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Sounds to me as though she's running just as she ought to! Congratulations! And as @EBEBRATT-Ed said — watch out. Word gets around…
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
Go ahead and upgrade the steam main vent. Depending on how much air is in the main, it may take several vents to make it vent quickly enough.
The blue F&T trap is not needed there. You can get rid of it.
What's the story with the radiator trap in the last 2 pics? I can't make out what it's connected to………………
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
I think that it looks like an oddly piped crossover trap.
And yes, upgrade that main vent — one or two Gorton #2s should do it. But don't be fooled! Now that you've got the pressure where you want it, they should never see steam and thus never close. That's OK!
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
the trap on the left side of the eom pics? It’s a Barnes and jones big mouth vent.
THINK
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one of these puppies
THINK
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No- there's a smaller trap midway between the steam and return mains…………………
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
@Steamhead this trap?
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hopefully that shows it better for you
THINK
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Yep. That one. That's a crossover. It vents the main into the dry return. Note that the drip from the main has the F&T on it which you don't need if the pressure is correct (although, come to think of it, it might be worth making sure that the wet return into which it and the drip from the return connect really is below the boiler water line with the newer boiler… so long as it is at least a few inches below, once you get rid of the F&T it will be fine)
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
@Jamie Hall got it. It functions as a main vent, routing air into the dry return. How long is the main, and what pipe size?
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
if you zoom in on the drip connections you’ll see white paint marker. Each drip has a horizontal mark denoting the boiler’s cold water line. One is on the vertical reducing coupling. I use my handy laser level on projects to run around the basement and mark those lines. Starting at the boiler and working out to the far reaches of the system. These drips have the A dimension imperial written on them for reference as well. Damn you guys are cool!
Main is ~100’ long and is 2 1/2”
THINK
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If you replace that little crossover with a BigMouth 1/2" crossover, and remove the Hoffman vent and vacuum breaker, that system will vent the way it was intended.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting1 -
that brings up a new question. The day I was installing that crossover I had a few different options in my bucket and knowing I wanted this one to breathe the best I was blowing through them with my mouth. I couldn’t tell much of a difference and settled on the one pictured. I wanna say it’s a Hoffman 17c. Are they universal?
THINK
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No. Their air throughput varies widely, and the 17C is one of the slowest, especially if it has a DuraStat inside it. Change it to the Big Mouth Crossover and watch how much better it works.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
killer steamhead….gorton #2 or big mouth? What’s the go to?
THINK
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I like the Gorton because it can stop or at least slow down escaping water. The Big Mouth can't do that. But the Gorton is a vent, not a trap. You need a Big Mouth on that crossover.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
excellent topic.are all rad traps created equal? Do they vent the same capacity? I had a few different options the day I was installing that one. I blew through them with my mouth and chose that one
THINK
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@gerry gill and @steve pajek measured a lot of traps along with vents, and the results are here:
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting1 -
Before and after pics of near boiler repipe. Going back Monday for skimming/commission/tuning
THINK
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is that insulation on the vent rated to be used like that?
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