Short cycling hell
Comments
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Trust me then, you wouldn't be any happier with a detailed answer (disassociation reactions, bases, conjugate bases, hydronium ions….aach) and, as long as it's been since chemistry, it makes my head spin a bit.
Total alkalinity is a measure of the buffering capacity, which is ability to oppose future pH changes. Carbonate, Bicarbonate, Hydroxide, and Phosphate (which is weaker) add up to total alkalinity. They can get used up eventually.
In my case where I'm using distilled water, the only buffering I have comes from the 8-way in the form of the hydroxide and the phosphate because there is no natural alkalinity in distilled water, so it's ability to buffer against the constant production of carbonic acid from CO2 in my radiators and mains and returns is limited, and my pH slowly drops from day one that I fill the boiler. The buffer needs to be replenished at some point which I'm still trying to determine in my system but should require checking the pH every few weeks or so and adding a small amount of sodium hydroxide or more 8-Way. If that isn't done, at some point the pH will drop rapidly.
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Trust me? Really. sounds like "I'm from the government and I'm here to help".
“If you can’t explain it to a six-year-old, you don’t really understand it.” Albert Einstein.
And I think @ChrisJ passed 7th grade at least. but I could be wrong.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Yeah OK guys. You're right. It makes PERFECT sense to ask someone who isn't a chemistry professor to try to explain complicated chemistry without getting into any chemistry. I'm sorry I made the effort. Next time use the search engine of your choice. LOL
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couldn’t wait for the plumber, saved some $$ and did it myself. This is the first time this boiler has ever been skimmed to my knowledge. Video link of my instal and skim.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0a8Hog0Vcbv9XDbRMWV-HhWpQ
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Nicely done. What I always wanted to do to mine but couldn't. How long did you go for and what does the water look like that came out? Any oil film on the surface?
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i’ve done my first 5 gallon so far, I’m letting it cool but when I shine my light on it, I can see what appears to be oil film on top. The water is cloudy and still pinkish from the 8way still not cleared out after 3 boiler and wet return flushes. My boiler must’ve been making lots of wet steam because that 8way is deeply embedded throughout my system and NOT isolated to the steam chest itself.
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It's not "wet steam", it's just liquid water being carried up. Don't worry too much about getting every drop out of your system, it will be fine. Nice install!
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
I know that well, as far as massive carryover throwing all contents of boiler and lots of muck with it into the piping and radiators. I was using the 8-Way myself at the beginning of 2025 heating season but I skipped the drain and flush and it was left over from previous season. Big mistake.
You can also mop up a lot of the oil with either of those two diatomaceous earth products I mentioned. I eventually did get rid of the oil that way without skimming.
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thanks! You should be flattered, I lifted it right from one of your videos ;). I have a tee I will install at the end of it for adding chemical, just wanted to get to the skimming asap
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I'm glad I could help! Of course I didn't invent that setup, I saw it somewhere first but in my opinion it is so good it should be specified in the installation manuals. It gives a great place to add boiler treatment, and if you get really insane like some of us you can even add ALL of your makeup water via those fittings. If you boil it first and add it hot it goes in with almost no oxygen, and you can add distilled water to eliminate so many minerals and undesirable chemicals from getting into your boiler
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el1 -
yea I have some squick on order. I was going to try a little of that too. Won’t be here for a few days so it will give me a good chance to see if the skimming solved all my issues of surging without additives. If I can get away with not having to add it than that’s great but I’m not opposed to trying a bit to achieve a stable boil.
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Honestly I would only recommend Squick to people who have no way to install skimming hardware. Skimming is the way.
Although it shouldn't hurt anything, it's basically just this dusty bituminous earth stuff that might soak up a little residual oil.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
just read the wikipedia pages for ph/poh and alkilinity. what one usally mens when they say alklinity is actually basicity.
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no it doesn't mean that…that's what every reasonable person would think, but read the messages above—it stands for how much water resists change to its pH level
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
Alkalinity is a measure — and a rather crude one — of the buffering capacity of a water solution. It is related to the kinds of anions and cations present in the water and their concentrations. Alkalinity has very little to do with pH, except that the species and concentrations of anions and cations will determine the pH. Now… buffering comes about when there is one or more anion/cation pairs which can accept or release H+ (or H3O+), such as the carbonate/bicarbonate or bicarbonate/carbonic acid pairs (the most common buffering pairs in both fresh water and sea water). There are many such pairs… some of them may add the complication of involving oxidation/reduction reactions as well.
pH on the other hand is simple. It is the negative logarithm (base 10) of the H* concentration in the water. Nothing more, nothing less.
Quantitative inorganic equilibrium chemistry is fun…
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
I 100% know you know what you're talking about and don't just simply copy and paste stuff.
I don't always agree, but I know it's your actual thoughts.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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My 45 year old Peerless didn't have a skim port installed when new. I can only assume the original installers used the pressure release safety valve to skim. Fast forward to 10 years ago I installed a skim port where the PRV valve was. Mine was installed incorrectly (sideways) and was plugged up. Corrected that and put a ball valve on there to do some skimming.
On my system skimming wasn't needed but it is an easy access point for me to add chemicals like Rectorseal 8-way.
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