Unbalanced system or Wrong piping near boiler??

vc123

we had a new boiler replaced last year, attic this winter gets all the heat - windows need to be opened - middle floors struggle to heat- not all radiators heat evenly - Is the piping install our problem ? Multiple “specialists” have inspected and said pressure is set right, piping is correct and boiler may be undersized.

Mad Dog_2

Looking From here, you got a much better than average installation. Boiler sizing is a whole 'nother question. Was the new boiler's output matched up with the connected radiator and piping load ? Mad Dog

vc123

Glad to hear that - When it was replaced the plumber measured all radiators in house and calculated the correct size accordingly- to my knowledge at least

Captain Who

If the boiler is possibly undersized, insulating the heck out of every steam pipe may be your salvation.

Jamie Hall

Unbalanced one pipe steam? Hardly unusual — but can be kind of fussy to fix. The balance is controlled by the radiator vents.

So. Step one — make sure all the radiator service (feed) valves are all the way open.

Now start fussing with radiator vents. Start by putting slow vents on radiators which get their spaces too warm. Don't try to speed up cold rooms at first! Slow the too warm ones down. Then as you get closer to where you want to be, adjust individual rooms — one at a time. And let things adjust for at least a few cycles of the thermostat — preferably a day or so.

STEAM DOCTOR

Check the gas pressure. The regulators on the gas controls, are very often set incorrectly out of the box.

STEAM DOCTOR

And water quality water quality water quality water quality.

Mad Dog_2

Insulation will only get you so far out of trouble. Borderline undersized...maybe...But the thickest insulation will not rescue a significantly undersized system. Bottom line, what does the installer say? Is he still on board or walking away? Mad Dog

dabrakeman

What was installed for main vents?

STEAM DOCTOR

The pressure gauge on the boiler, is not to code. Needs to be a 30 lb gauge

ethicalpaul

It would be extraordinarily rare for a steam boiler to ever be undersized, not least of all because every manufacturer oversizes them vs their sq ft of steam rating by 33%

But unless we see your radiators it's all speculation. I'm curious to know what led your specialists to say it might possibly be undersized. If they were there they could measure your radiators and know rather than speculate, so I suspect they were just throwing out a guess rather than help you fix the real problem.

Follow Jamie's advice above and slow down your radiators in your hot rooms.

Did your installer skim the boiler? Does the water level in the gauge glass ever dive to the bottom during a call for heat? I do see a nice skim tapping with valve on it so it seems like they might have.

vc123

will check main vents when back home-

installer has been back multiple times and stands by the size -

Last guy here for second opinion said the boiler was cycling off due to water cut off not pressure. So that’s why he was thinking undersized…

I’ve tried turning attic radiator, that gets boiling hot, off to see if steam distributes better to other rooms on 2nd floor but not much of a difference

will try to insulate basement pipes regardless as the basement is always warm

Grallert

If your installer sized the boiler to the load correctly and it's tripping the LWCO it's either losing water or it's bouncing so much it trips the LWCO. The latter can be fix by a good long skim. Are you having to add water when it trips? Check for steam and or water leaks around valves and vents. How is you wet return?

Captain Who

Check your sight glass for water level during a burner cycle if someone is telling you the LWCO is stopping the burn. You may have much worse problems than venting, probably water quality. Did the installer skim all the oils out? Did he add anything like Steam Clean or Squick to bind to the oils and absorb them so they can be flushed out the drain?

ethicalpaul

Yeah, this is key: Was the water actually low, or was the boiler carrying over its water into the main?

Last guy here for second opinion said the boiler was cycling off due to water cut off not pressure. So that’s why he was thinking undersized…

I can't imagine what the boiler cycling off would have to do with being undersized unless he thinks all the water in the boiler is turning to steam and going into your system, which I will say has literally never happened in a single family residence in the history of steam heat.

Just for a rough idea, how many radiators are in your home?

vc123

It goes off and then cycles back on in 1-3 minutes - no water added - and I don’t hear the auto feeder adding water either. The sight glass never goes to empty or bounces much.

Old house and about 17 radiators total

the return was clogged last year after the new install and was fixed. I know the oil was skimmed after the install but don’t think anything else was added.

No water leaks around vents

vc123

Guy who thinks it’s undersized and cycling off due to water not pressure took off a radiator vent from the attic and put a piece of toilet paper which was barley blowing he said it should be blowing a lot more than it was…

4GenPlumber

Are we talking about a cycle guard again?

ethicalpaul

It goes off and then cycles back on in 1-3 minutes - no water added - and I don’t hear the auto feeder adding water either. The sight glass never goes to empty or bounces much.

Then I am skeptical of the fellow claiming it was going off on low water rather than pressure. Did he say why he thinks it is turning off because of low water? The gauge glass would have to be empty for this to be the case.

Your Cyclegard low water cutoff turns off the boiler every 15 to 20 minutes for 60-90 seconds, I wonder if he misunderstood seeing that.

vc123

he said he was overriding the pressuretrol when the boiler was cycling so that’s how he concluded it was due to low water not pressure….

ethicalpaul

That is very odd. The actual way to determine this would be to be looking at the pressure and the water level when the boiler shuts down.

If the water level is low, it is probably due to water level. (and a light would light up on the LWCO)

If the pressure is high, it is probably due to the pressuretrol cutting out on high pressure.

I wish you good luck and possibly don't call that guy back.

STEAM DOCTOR

Low water cutoff might be defective

STEAM DOCTOR

Do you actually see water movement in the glass, when boiler is firing. Are the valve, above and below the glass, open

STEAM DOCTOR

Could be the ignition control.... There are lots of things that can go bad on a boiler. Brand new boilers,, do you come with defective parts, sometimes.

ethicalpaul

All true, but by far the most common defective part we see is the contractor.

ethicalpaul

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1888705#Comment_1888705

Ahh the industry-standard toilet paper boiler sizing test, got it