Cost to replace boiler sections

josephny · January 6

Today I found that out the my EG-95 (400kbtu) gas boiler (small apt building) stopped working because it has a couple of leaking sections and something happened last night where the flame spilled out and burned some wires.

The boiler service company recommends replaceing all the sections, which means tearing it all apart (including the header), and the burner base.

I don't want to violate any rules of the board regarding pricing. Can I ask for a ballpark of what this job should reasonably cost?

Location is Brooklyn, NY.

Thank you.

Big Ed_4 · January 6

Yeah you can't ask price .. I can tell you it an't cheap .. I would say your lucky to find someone to do the job in this weather, as a thought .. Better luck for the New Year

EBEBRATT-Ed · January 6

@josephny

How bad is it leaking? Can you get by for 3 months?

How old is it?

Are they talking a complete new boiler or just sections?

mattmia2 · January 6

could you pour some sealer in it and get by until spring?

Mad Dog_2 · January 6

There are too many variables to shoot you a ballpark price, even if we could. Unless it is a very large boiler, changing sections will usually not be worth it. You need to do your due diligence and get several quotes from local licensed and insured boiler contractors. Then, you'll see if your in Fenway or Yankee Stadium. Mad Dog

josephny · January 6

@Big _Ed_4: I've had a long standing relationship with the current boiler company, and I have a service contract (which effectively means they will service my boilers at full price vs. without the service contract where they will not service my boilers). This goes directly to your understanding that I am lucky to find someone.

@EBEBRATT -Ed: Service guys say it is full of crud and no way they can get it working. It's not old -- less than 10 years. They said they recommend just swapping the sections.

@mattmia2 : Service guys say no. I specifically asked about getting through this season.

@Mad Dog _2: EG-95, 400K, I don't know how many sections.

My problem is I have tenants who are rightfully pissed off because they are cold, so no time for due diligence (which I would certainly prefer to do).

I have the water level on this boiler (and all my boilers) checked and skimmed at least weekly. What I don't have is a full service done annually -- I need to get that in place!

Thank you all, as always!

Mad Dog_2 · January 6

Go rent some electric heaters. Takes the pressure off. You have one chance to do this right or suffice consequences $$$$$ the next 25 years..mad Dog

EBEBRATT-Ed · January 6

IMHO for an EG properly installed to fail in 10 years probably means one thing. Excessive MU water.

I would put a water meter on the boiler make up water and keep a sharp look out for small leaks they can add up.

Excessive MU water will eat a boiler and any returns below the water line very fast.

mattmia2 · January 6

lots of contractors that will work on Brooklyn, look in find a contractor at the top of this page.

if it has been properly installed and serviced, why is it leaking after less than 10 years?

Big Ed_4 · January 6

Sometimes we just have to throw money at it :)

Working Brooklyn you know ..

Intplm. · January 7

Replacing the sections? All of them?! That sounds like an entirely new boiler. Get it done but first find out why this boiler failed so prematurely, and get that corrected.

Meanwhile,add some boiler seal to mend the leak, this will buy you some time till the repair, or should I say replacement is done.

josephny · January 7

All sections scheduled to be replaced today.

The potential problems from tenants calling NYC and filing complaints, or using electric heaters which will still not satisfy tenants and introduce some degree of safety concern, combined with the likely cost of providing heaters for every room in every apt and the likely demand for a rent break is just not worth delaying this any.

I think monitoring water usage is a great idea. I think the water feeder copper line is 1/2". What would be a light weight, simple water meter to install?

Intplm. · January 7

Interesting. @josephny How did you come to the conclusion to replace all of the sections and not replace the boiler?

Here is one type of water meter to consider. This is a Neptune T-10. Some have a remote reader that can be used without having to enter the building.

josephny · January 7

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1881179#Comment_1881179

Replacing the sections is what the boiler service company suggested, and would be substantially less expensive

Intplm. · January 7

Wow. I would not have thought that. Go figure.

Please post how things went.

mattmich · January 7

» IMHO for an EG properly installed to fail in 10 years probably means one thing. Excessive MU water.

Yes.
And we have the explanation right here from the owner.. so long as "skimmed weekly" is really what happened. Checking is good, skimming should not be necessary on a ten-year-old boiler.

» I have the water level on this boiler (and all my boilers) checked and skimmed at least weekly

I'm thinking that policy needs some revision to make the new sections last.
The other mystery that did not get sufficiently addressed is

» replacing all the sections

"All the sections" — other than the jacket and the firebox, that's the entirety of the boiler.

I do understand the idea of getting things up and running post haste, but it'd be good to get an understanding of what's going on for the future. Take a good look at the old boiler pieces to see what caused the trouble.

Maybe the best thing would be to quietly find someone from this forum to come in for a consultation. That would not ruffle any feathers with your existing provider and be a great investment.

cheers -matt

Big Ed_4 · January 7

Your boiler uses O-rings construction , if you have the mussel it is not a bad job …

josephny · January 7

I think I misused a term.

I wrote skimming but I think my understanding is incorrect.

I just meant opening the drain valve for 10-20 seconds to remove the water that accumulated dirt.

I was instructed to do this weekly during heating season from the boiler company.

josephny · January 7

Heat is up, but they're putting finishing touches on everything.

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ChrisJ · January 7

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1881204#Comment_1881204

I assume you mean cleaning the LWCO?

I'd dump it until the water runs clean, 10-20 seconds seems awfully long. I'd expect 5 seconds honestly.

Also, make sure you do it with the burner running so you can confirm the burner shuts off. If it doesn't, the LWCO isn't working and needs to be addressed immediately.

ChrisJ · January 7

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1881205#Comment_1881205

Curious,

How are you going to skim that new boiler? They didn't install a way to skim it that I can see?

mattmia2 · January 7

why is the old one sooted?

josephny · January 7

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1881213#Comment_1881213

There was some incident (I don't know exactly what happened, but I assume a big splash of water from a leak occurred) that triggered this whole situation. That's when the soot appeared, burned the wires, and brought down the boiler a couple days ago.

I'm going to install a water meter on the MU water feed on this boiler (and other boilers I have) because it sure sounds like (from the experts here) that excessive MU water is what cut my boiler's life by more than half.

It's not surprising, unfortunately, because (and I'm grateful for the opportunit to vent a little here), I have tenants who will go a month or two before letting me know that they are ready to "escalate" the problem of the steam leaking from a radiator and ruining their items and their quality of life — of course, the idea that they would sit quietly on this info for months and then threaten to escalate an issue that I did not know existed is bizarre, but combined with the fact that I have a very healthy relationship with my tenants (they tell me about a problem and I take care of it ASAP) it's just incomprehensible. (This is a true story that just happened yesterday at another building — turns out the radiator valve had a crack.)

josephny · January 7

I believe I used the incorrect term. I should have said "clean the LWCO."

josephny · January 7

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1881206#Comment_1881206

It very well could be less than 10 seconds.

Excellent tip on doing it with the boiler running to confirm the LWCO is working. Many of my boilers have both a float and a sensor type LWCO. Drain from the float, right?

mattmia2 · January 7

only float type LWCOs require a weekly or so blowdown.

mattmia2 · January 7

i understand why they don't tell you, it is a pain to contact someone and describe the problem with them, then deal with someone in your home fixing it.

ChrisJ · January 7

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1881220#Comment_1881220

Did you see the section(s) that were leaking?

Big Ed_4 · January 7

Why did they use the old gauge glass assembly ?

mattmia2 · January 7

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1881225#Comment_1881225

you can see some signs of minor leakage in the pictures that would likely have been there if it was inspected at the beginning of the season. it doesn't look like it was a major leak but it is hard to tell from pictures. it however looks very sooted and that didn't just happen last week.

Big Ed_4 · January 7

Bad O-rings

josephny · January 7

I would very much like to know why this happened also.

I assume by soot you mean the black carbon on the surface. I don't know if you mean the soot on the boiler blue case panels or on the sections.

All I know is what I'm told and the little I've learned. I'm told they did a flood test and the boiler had a substantial leak from multiple sections and was full of crud. Does that report, together with the pictures, fit an explanation of excessive MU water over the a substantial period of time? I have suspected for quite a while that it was using far too much MU water, and did a diligent search throughout for any leaks, finding quite a few vents, radiators, and valves with leaks.

Only float type needs cleaning? So a boiler with only a sensor type doesn't need to have dirt removed from the water on a regular and frequent (weekly?) basis?

mattmia2 · January 7

well, both, but it is outside the jacket because it has been inside the boiler block for a while. gas should produce no soot if it is burning properly. I don't know if the steam leaking can cause the sooting, it doesn't seem like it would but i'm not an expert on combustion. you can see that it is burning very yellow in one of the early pictures so it isn't burning right for some reason. the soot caused the rollout. i don't see why it couldn't have been brushed and vacuumed and whatever was wrong with the combustion fixed and the leak wait until spring but i might be missing something.

A probe type lwco should be disassembled and cleaned once a year but it doesn't need weekly maintenance.

the blowdown of the float type lwco is to make sure the float isn't stuck and to remove sediment from the float bowl.

EdTheHeaterMan · 2:09AM

This water feed has a digital counter. It is not accurate to the ounce, but it will give you a ballpark of how much Make Up water you are using. And that is all you are looking for, and you need a water feeder anyway. Hydrolevel water feed with digital counter.