Can you help identify my B&G boiler pump? Possible replacement? Repair parts?
My home in Seattle is 95 years old with the original hydronic heating system. Built in 1931 as a gravity fed system, it was modified in the early 50’s (estimated) to add a circulation pump when a second floor living space was added. That pump has been working for approximately 75 years and I am concerned about how much longer it will function.
I was wondering if anyone could help me identify what model of pump it is and if it is still possible to get repair parts for it.
If it is too old to continue to maintain, would you have an idea of what kind of modern pump could replace it?
The system has been operating well, heating the house for the 45 years that I have been living here. There are no issues with water circulation. A couple of years ago it threw a spring on the coupler and I was able to find a “common” replacement (Bell & Gossett 118705), but still haven’t identified the pump’s actual model number.
I really like this web site. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks much! —Tom
Attached are some Photos:
Comments
-
That should be easy to replace. Personally, if I was worried, I would buy a replacement from a hydronics guy. I might keep it on a shelf, just in case , or I might replace it for improved efficiency and an oil free motor. Not so sure I would worry about it dying, but that is just me.
2 -
can I have that gage ?
known to beat dead horses0 -
Looks like a 100 series. If the rubber bushings the motor is mounted in rot out it will misalign the shaft and start breaking couplings. Replace them when they get soft.
Is the system still set up as a gravity system, did anyone change any of the piping or the emitters? If it is not changed almost any circulator will work since it is designed to be gravity.
2 -
what's with the "install with this arrow pointing to a wall" thing?
0 -
Several drops of oil in the pump oil port, a couple of drops in each of the motor oil ports each year and that pump will run indefinitely.
Note @mattmia2 's comment about the mounts.
It's a B&G 100. Still available today.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bell-Gossett-102214-1-6-HP-2-NFI-Circulator-Pump
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
1 -
As @delcrossv and @mattmia2 say, with a little oil (don't overdo it) and some attention to the motor mounts, that thing will run another century or so without problems. The coupler springs are the weakest part, and paying attention to the mounts will keep hem happy.
And the same pump is still made. Don't mess with success…
Oh and one more thing: it's within a percentage point or two of any "modern" pump in terms of efficiency.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England1 -
AMAZING!!
what machine are we building now that will less for 75 years!? 🥺
0 -
NOTHING made now will last 10 years never mind 75. Even if it is the same "identical " pump it is likely made in China or some of the parts are.
There is probably twice the copper in that old motor as a new motor. Take care of it. The volute and housing are probably fine. The motor can be rebuilt at a motor shop and new bearing assemblies are available, I think unless they changed th thing so a new one will not fit.
But you will need a truck to haul the money from your bank to Bell & Gosset. They give nothing away.
2 -
which is why @DanHolohan said the part number for a seal for that is 007
0 -
Not a 100- this is that pump's predecessor. My 1940 Bell & Gossett Handbook says it's the model H2, since the pipe connections are 2-inch.
Given the size of that boiler, I'm thinking that circ might be oversized for that system. This can cause the water to short-circuit through the radiators, reducing efficiency. Here's an extreme case I found years ago:
Do you know how many square feet of radiation is on your system?
Also, an old round boiler like that one is inherently inefficient. A combustion test would probably reveal an extremely high stack temperature.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting
4 -
That's not a 100. Note the 4 bolt flanges, and flange to flange height difference.
1 -
"Point arrow towards wall" means do not point to floor or ceiling. IMO
Horizontal shaft position only. Some may have been confused by "Horizontal" and "Vertical" wording.
I have a 1961 school with 2 pumps similar to this. Both original motors still working.
3 -
Good catch, @Steamhead Do you know if replacement parts are available for the model H2? Would they be the same as on a model 100? Thanks for your help.
0 -
Thanks for the advice, @mattmia2 Can you tel from the attached photos if the motor mounts need replacing? They don't appear soft and look firm and symmetrical.
Thanks for your help.
End Mount
Coupler Side
0 -
They look ok but oily. You could take them off and twist them if they crack they are dried out and you will have to replace them. Probably better leaving them alone. If you can find replacements buy them for spares.
0 -
You might contact the B&G rep in Seattle, CHC, see if they have the motor mounts and spring coupling. They would probably have a motor that fits also, if you want to buy a spare. Replacing that entire pump with another 4 bolt type may be expensive. Or changing flanges and piping with that insulation may be a lot to get into.
.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream2 -
Bearing assembly might be this one:
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bell-Gossett-189163LF-Bearing-Assembly-Lead-Free-Obs-1-1-2-Obs-2-Obs-HV
But if that were mine, and I wasn't going to replace the boiler, I'd change to a standard 2-bolt flange set and use a standard circ.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
B & G made it very difficult to identify their pumps. It’s like some big secret that only a few have access to. Like the new trendy restaurants or bakeries around town here that don’t have a sign outside with their name on it that crowds flock to.
Ive called California Hydronics Corp. (CHC) in the past and even they scratch their heads.
Maybe @DanHolohan can give us some history?8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab0 -
I worked for the B&G rep from 1970 until 1989. During that time, I don’t believe we had parts for that particular pump. In fact, this is the first time I’m seeing one.
Retired and loving it.0 -
The rep I worked with in Kansas City, Blackmore Glunt always had old pumps like that on their repair bench when I visited. I think all the old timers that might recognize that model have retired however:)
E mail a pic to the rep in your area, what do you have to lose? I think Armstrong Pump has replacement motors for old B&G stuff also. A spare motor, new seal and coupling could get you another 40 years.
If you do replace look into an electronic ECM type that you can better dial in to your system needs and save some electricity.
Replacing it will involve some piping work, no doubt.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
-
B&G did make it difficult to match things up. At the price of the one above re-piping is probably the way to go.
B&G replacement parts are outrageous. Not worth fixing a LWCO the parts cost so much it is usually better to replace. They used to be the leader now its like they are putting themselves out of business.
0 -
maybe you could get a set of 4 bolt flanges, a set of 2 bolt flanges, some nipples, and an ecm circulator in that space.
0 -
I believe that's a drop in replacement.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
Does anyone know if any maintenance is required for the "rope" in the oil reservoir? Mine looks like it might have been disintegrated over the years. Should it be replaced after a period of time?
0 -
I am pretty sure the 1/6 hp 2" pump took the 189100 bearing assembly. Which now the # is I am pretty sure 189162. But it does not sound like the bearing assembly is leaking so maybe just a little tlc. Replace coupler and motor mounts, we always did both when needed. The mounts are sagging and probably hardened. You could pick out the old probably varnished oil wicking with something like a dental pick . Order new wicking. Here is pic of wicking p/n
Here is part sheet I think is correct one. Would need to verify diameter of motor mounts from supplier to what your od & id dimension are of your existing motor mounts. PS, very often when moving motor around to do mounts, you can accidentally short the leads that go from the elect box on motor into motor housing due to insulation being worn out. Then you may just burn up leads. No promises, we fixed many over the last 40 plus years. Once in a long while they had to be put down. Good luck. Here is the part sheet I think is right for that pump. I circled the 2" at top of page. Hope others chime in if they think maybe it would be different.
0 -
you can sleeve shrink tube over the motor wires if they are crispy, you can warm them up with a heat gun to straighten them without cracking the insulation to get the shrink tube over them if you have to.
0
Categories
- All Categories
- 87K THE MAIN WALL
- 3.2K A-C, Heat Pumps & Refrigeration
- 58 Biomass
- 426 Carbon Monoxide Awareness
- 116 Chimneys & Flues
- 2.1K Domestic Hot Water
- 5.7K Gas Heating
- 109 Geothermal
- 161 Indoor-Air Quality
- 3.6K Oil Heating
- 70 Pipe Deterioration
- 994 Plumbing
- 6.3K Radiant Heating
- 389 Solar
- 15.4K Strictly Steam
- 3.4K Thermostats and Controls
- 54 Water Quality
- 44 Industry Classes
- 48 Job Opportunities
- 18 Recall Announcements