Who owns who?
Just thought I would post this as it gets confusing.
- Carrier Corporation owns Carrier, Bryant, Arcoaire, Comfortmaker, Day & Night, Heil, Payne, and Tempstar.
- Trane Technologies owns American Standard, Trane , Oxbox, and RunTru.
- York owns York, Coleman, and Luxaire.
- Rheem Manufacturing owns Rheem and Ruud.
- Daikin owns Goodman, Amana, and Daikin.
- Nortek Global owns Maytag.
- Lennox makes its namesake brand Lennox.
- Electrolux owns Frigidaire.
The one change to this list is that Rheem/Ruud recently bought Nortek Global within the last 8 months or so.
I see 1 JUNK brand missing which is TEMPSTAR which I guess TRANE has some control over it as I was able to buy parts for a Tempstar through an American Standard dealer.
Maybe we should do the same with boilers?
Comments
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Most of them have been traded around so many times now that you need to read the wikipedia page.
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It's getting like car batteries. 1000 brands but there is only 2 or 3 MFGs.
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And Carrier bought Viessmann's "Climate Solutions" branch; heating and cooling.
The last Viessmann indirect I purchased said "Made in France". My supplier said Viessmann was building a plant in Texas, but I don't know what they will make; boilers? indirects? heat pumps?
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab0 -
Your first line has tempstar.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Paloma Industries of Japan owns Rheem and are in partnership with Fujitsu.
Trane is also in partnership with Mitsubishi.
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Lennox owns a few different brands. Ducane, Concord, AirEase, maybe a few others.
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Does lennox still run the armstrong line? They were furnaces and acs.
also, the commercial trane dealers sell tempstar as trane residential is end user dealer only. I know carrier sells payne as a "budget" brand to protect their carrier "dealer".
Keeprite is also a brand that is now made by carrier. Many part numbers are the same, at least on commercial equipment.
Gets confusing when the dealer you bought the appliance from doesnt support it any more because the parent company changed and now the dealer has a conflict of agreements with other brands they rep.
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I'd be more interested in which Chinese factory the different brands come from. I think that would give you a better idea of build quality than where the profits go.
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pretty sure we heard that York sold its HVAC division to Bosch
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I haven't heard any definitive info on a US manufacturing facility (there is always talk though). Viessmann has wanted to do this for a long time, the concern being they weren't gaining market share in the US like they have in pretty much every other country that was using boiler heat. I could see it being more likely now with Carrier involved and with the European market shifting even more to heat pumps, just makes less and less sense to keep their primary boiler manufacturing over there. I do wonder how the agreement they made with the German government when they allowed the sale to Carrier will affect their US manufacturing plans. They've had the tank manufacturing facility in France for quite a while now, well before Carrier was involved.
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Allied Air Enterprises is part of Lennox International yes. That includes, Armstrong, Airease, Concord, Ducane, Allied Commercial and Magic Pak
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It's a complete mess is what it is.
@ChrisJ
Your right. Ameristar is the cheap TRANE brand I was thinking of.
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Carrier has Viessmann and Toshiba/Carrier also
Ariston owns HTP and a number of other boiler brands around the world.
ECR has a number of brands under their umbrella
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
Different type of product but back when I was working, (I retired from OSHA in 2016) I was at a freezer factory in St. Cloud that had been previously a Frigidaire plant and was at the time an Electrolux factory. Two production lines made upright and chest units at a pace of 3000 per day. The compressors were all the same except place of origin. Either China or Brazil. There might have been some minor differences depending on the model but the biggest one was the guy at the end of the line putting the brand nameplate on which included almost everyone you can think of. Amana, Whirlpool, Frigidaire, Electrolux, Kenmore, GE (I think) and probably a few I forgot. Impressive place and now it is closed and hundreds of workers were let go. I'm not sure if production moved to Mexico or where but I guess that's the business model.
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There is owning the company and then there is buying a product you don't make from another company and slapping your name on it. Even 60 years ago there were a lot of companies that didn't really market their own product but made private label products for other companies both big manufacturers and directly for retailers.
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Same with tools. I like that Makita only makes Makita, same with Hilti.
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If they showed all the brands owned by stanley-black and decker it would take this whole page
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The town I used to live in 10 miles away is where American Saw (Lenox) tools are made. In fact I could have almost hit the plant with a thrown rock from my old house.
American Saw was family owned up until about 20 years ago (approx. guess) and had a great reputation when they were bought and ended up being owned by Rubbermaid then became part of Stanley Black & Decker. Their saw blades and hole saws were as good or better than anything else. I did a lot of work in that plant. Chillers, MU air units air conditioning etc.
I ran into a former coworker last week who told me they had some new management employees at the Saw. They did something to the blade and hole saws….changed the tempering that didn't work out so well.
He said they have a handle on it now😕
Buy a good company with a good reputation that is successful. Turn it over to the bean counters and wreck it.
Its the American way.
Funny story
There used to be a bar/pizza place next to the AS plant. It did a terrific business back in the old days when I played softball we went there often. American Saw was next door. Package Machine was across the street and Milton Bradley was just down the street. Lots of employees. This went on for years. The owner of the bar would load up on cash and would cash the employees pay checks when they came in Friday night
Eventually the former owners of the SAW got sick of there employees going there and cashing there checks and going home having drank the rent money.
So he bought the bar and ripped it down, sold the land and there is a gas station/convienence store there now.
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Who owns Craftsmen?
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stanley-black and decker. They bought it from sears as they got closer to the drain 5-10 years ago.
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Hmm… why won't it show in orange for a click choice? It did when I wrote the post?
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https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/93556/000009355622000015/ex21-subsidiariesofstanley.htm
Can’t get it to post as a link either.
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did you press the little button with the less than/greater than on it and paste the url in to there?
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/93556/000009355622000015/ex21-subsidiariesofstanley.htm
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The next question should be "how many bean counters do they employ"
I don't see Lenox or American Saw listed but I am sure they are buried somewhere.
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Also Stanley-Black and Decker
Stanley's CEO was a Jack Welch protégé a decade or so ago so that would explain the hunger games situation.
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Does it really matter who "holds" the company?
Have you seen the depth of the Milwaukee tool catalog recently? Years ago they were know mainly for Sawzalls and angle drills. Same for Dewalt.
The capital that the big player bring to the table allows for a lot of R&D, new product development and global markets.
Power tools will take the same path as appliances, designed to be a 10 year or so product. Not like my grandads SawZall and circular saw which I kept running for 30 years!
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
I don't think professional tool buyers are going to go for that. If your brand of professional tools suddenly starts breaking they're going to pay more for the ones that don't. Tools breaking constantly is going to cost them far more than the tool in people sitting around and ripples of delays in the schedule.
The many "dewalt" products are the result of Stanley owning everything. Many things they sell under their original brand and with a dewalt label slapped on it, especially many of the stanley tools they've been making for decades. If I recall correctly they got the dewalt name when they merged with black and decker. I have a heavy duty die cast stanley circular saw from the 70's that was my grandfather's that is branded stanley but it was made to be a professional tool.
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Quality is gone. Tools will be throw a way. They will build them just 'good enough"
Milwaukee stuff used to be great. You couldn't buy it in a big box you had to go to an industrial supplier, or an electrical or plumbing supply. Same with B & D Industrial.
Professionals won't put up with crap but the tools won't last 30-40 years either. I have a 3/8 Milwaukee corded drill bought new in 77'. It will break your wrist.
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So what brand of power tool do you recommend as a top quality, money is no object?
There are no "lifetime" tools appliances, boilers, vehicles, hand tools, computers, smart phones, etc built anywhere for any money.
Who would build such a product? Consumers want the newest, latest technology.
I'm 90% cordless tools now, no way I would go back to a corded saw of any type regardless of how well it is built.
If you use tools to make you living, you are not sending it to a repair shop for weeks, even if repair parts are available. I've tried taking some of my older power tools in to one of the few remaining tool repair shops. Unless they have a pile of old donor to rob parts from, they send you shopping. You replace the tool and that is a cost of doing business. Hard to find any repair shop working for under 50 bucks an hour around here, even paying the diagnostic fee rarely pays off.
I buy "out of the box" power tools online to get the best possible prices.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
Fein, Festool, Metabo. So far Makita seems to have not been taken in the back room by a big box and told to make it cheaper.
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Agree. Like that Bostich 24v tool will accept Dewalt batteries with slight modification to the tool.
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