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Boiler Running Full Tilt, Cold House

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Comments

  • bjohnhy
    bjohnhy Member Posts: 109

    Is it completely fixed now? Temp rise was 11F and now it's 25F temp rise.

    What do you think caused all that crud to build up?

  • DCContrarian
    DCContrarian Member Posts: 1,103

    Pretty, but is it art?

    I'd been waiting to see how this ended. Good for you for sticking with it.

    Now I'm off to watch the latest episode of "Severance."

    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • PeteA
    PeteA Member Posts: 256

    I saw in the beginning this is a Lochinvar combi unit but I didn’t see the specific model or product line.

    Can someone put the rest of the details in this thread somewhere so it’s easier to find in a search in the future? This was a real head scratcher for so many of you that it would be great to have it easier to find in the future in case someone else goes through this again.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 12,215

    For the most part you just need to know it is a fire tube mod con boiler. maybe knowing who is the actual manufacturer of the hx is important. My htp has the same sort of aluminum fins pressed in to it and i think they bought the same hx as lochinvar.

    PeteA
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 2,326
    edited February 22

    Lochinvar only makes one combi, a Noble. But this one is not a combi.

    PeteA
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 2,326

    Your HTP is a Kiturami HX, also used by Laars and Bradford White in their Mascot and Brute lines. This Lochinvar HX is not a Kiturami.

  • PeteA
    PeteA Member Posts: 256

    Great thank you

    So I guess their product line for this particular one is the Noble and then that line can be either a combi or just the boiler and this one is just the boiler. But like @mattmia2 said its the guts that really matter here because of the way they cross brand the internals.

    Got it Thanks

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,676

    @Alan (California Radiant) Forbes , did you find the cause? Cross contamination? Lack of maintenance?

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 12,215

    i would vote for lack of maintenance and maybe it sucks some sort of pollen or cottonwood or something in. If it wasn't keeping up in moderate weather at 40% it probably runs a whole lot of hours and 4 years or whatever of no maintenance gave that much stuff in it. what about wildfire smoke? that has particulates. does it ever change the oxygen content of the air enough to affect combustion?

    hot_rod
  • ScottSecor
    ScottSecor Member Posts: 950

    @Alan (California Radiant) Forbes thank you for sharing this with us. We all learned from your experience. Similar to you, we have not pulled apart too many of this type of HX (yet). Based on your experience, we will start to look at things differently. Glad it worked out for you and the customer.

    Alan (California Radiant) Forbesbjohnhy
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,676

    I agree @Alan (California Radiant) Forbes not opening to the HX on a maintenance unless you have new gaskets and whatever else might be needed. That's one thing I like about Weil McLain. For their Ultra gas, they offer a maintenance kit with everything you need to open and close. Even spare nuts and bolt studs if one snaps.

    jringel
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 24,800

    My theory was to let a new boiler run two years, then open it up, regardless if it is a water or fire tube. If it is in excellent condition, go another two or more years. If it is plugged with bugs, pollen, whatever, then a yearly cleaning may be necessary. Gaskets and flame rod/ignitor on hand before you start!

    If nothing else a combustion test might indicate something is plugged.

    A water quality test is another good idea. Just draw a sample to see the color of the water or glycol. Let it settle to see if any magnetite is present.

    The manual may mention yearly service to maintain warranty?

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    mattmia2HVACNUTTeemok
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 2,326

    The combustion recommendations are in the manual twice, and somebody shared them above in this thread. But 8.92% isn't bad on low fire if that's where it was. Glad you got it figured out. I've opened up a whole lot of Nobles (since that's the most important part of every service) and never seen one packed with coffee grounds like this- that's incredible. If you're careful, only the ignitor gasket needs replacement 99% of the time but I understand the hesitation. And none of them share top plate gaskets or burner gaskets so you have to have a whole pile on hand unfortunately; very frustrating.

    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 1,185

    Unfortunately you found out the hard way that you need to get to the heat exchanger on a PM with mod/cons whether its a fire tube or water tube. After doing it a couple of times It's really not that hard. Its part of our preventive maintenance with our customers. Every mod/con we breakdown we clean the heat exchanger even if it doesn't need it. We create a maintenance kit at our supplier so that when our scheduled PM's are due we just reorder We never have to change the heat exchanger gasket. The gasket that we carry to every site is the fan gaskets and the rear firewalls on water tubes.

    I find it well worth breaking down because you actually will see what's going on in the heat exchanger. I've had leaking heat exchangers on the top of a fire tube and found water tubes completely plugged with coffee grinds. our PM's are pretty fast because they are cleaned annually. I believe that without a doubt doing a complete PM is extending the life of our customers mod/con.

    hot_rodAlan (California Radiant) ForbesGroundUp
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 12,215

    Now i know why i should do the annual maintenance of cleaning the combustion chamber on my HTP. i have sort of ignored it for the 6 years since I installed it but i will do it this summer. I think there is an envelope with a set of gaskets that came with it that i set to the side while installing it. i'm hoping it isn't that dirty because it is only used for water heating and some supplemental heating. The schedule should probably be by hours of run time rather than just time, it looks like there is a way to set that as a reminder in the setup but the manual didn't seem to give hours for the service interval.

    ScottSecorAlan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 24,800

    Many of the boilers have run time counters in the control. My Lochinvar screen turns color and alerts to the required cleaning. I think it the interval is adjustable.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • I like the look of that Ultra, but there aren’t any dealers around me and I’ve never seen one installed in the Bay Area.
    Unusual way to access the HX from the side vs. the top. Have you ever opened one up to clean? What’s the user interface like? How is tech. support?

    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,676

    I open them all the time. They offer a cleaning tool for the older models. It's a pin type HX. They only want a water flush with the new blocks. If they're burning clean, The HX is always clean.

    Their U Control is very easy. It can accept 3 different circuits. Min/max firing rate for each circuit. Min/max temperature setting for each circuit. Floor standing or wall hung. I'm not crazy about the Series 1 and 2. But with the revisions they've made through the 3, the Series 4 is a nice boiler IMO.

    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

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