Need help finding boiler replacement
I currently have a 163,000 btu steam boiler that has begun to leak out the bottom of the tank onto the fire chamber. I have tried multiple different sealants that have said to work for the tank as well as on the pipes themselves but nothing has lasted more than a few hours, I have a 2 boiler system to heat two levels of my house both levels are 2,000 square ft. I looked online to find something to determine exactly what I need btu wise to replace my boiler with but keep finding many different equations that give a wide variety of answers. I have 8 radiators connected to the boiler that i am needing to replace. What is a good btu range to look at for a replacement boiler?
Comments
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You need a pro. Where are you located? We might know someone……………
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
Northwest, Missouri in the middle of it all. About an hour North of Kansas City and 2 hours South of the Iowa border.
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Steam is measured by EDR. You need to take pictures of all the radiators with measurements and post them. Someone here can tell you.
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Which ever boiler you chose to replace your current one, you should also pick the company that will install it best, and how well they will service said replacement.
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If you have 8 radiators, I wouldn't be surprised if your boiler isn't double the size it needs to be.
The installer is the most important thing and finding the right one can be difficult.
Check back here often for advice and don't assume the contractors you call know what they are doing.
Be suspicious
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Whoever you hire, make sure they follow the piping instructions in the installation manual EXACTLY. Put that in the contract.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
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Northwest Missouri? Well… that is sort of out in the weeds so far as steam! All is not lost, however. As someone said, check back on the Wall often; that's where the experts hang out and we will help you.
As someone on the Wall said a few minutes ago, the process of selecting a boiler size (and, ultimately, a boiler) isn't hard at all. What you need to do is to determine the capacity of the existing radiation — called "EDR". If you take some pictures of your radiators, and measurements, we can help you determine what their capacity is. Then the proper boiler size is simply the sum of those capacities. That's all there is to it. No fancy formulae, no measuring of the building, nothing like that.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England1 -
Living Room: 2 units - 52"wx12"hx10"d…..Study: 14"wx38"hx10"d…..front bath: 14"wx38"hx8"d…..Dining: 32"wx45"hx6"d….ofc: 38"wx31"hx6"d….Bkbath: 26"wx26"hx4"d….kitchen: 24"wx34"hx10"d. Wasn't able to get a pic of the kitchen as it's in a tight dark spot. Just to give you some other info … 1880's 2story, 2row thick brick foundation length wise, about 500 sq ft crawl space the rest is open basement; majority of pipes are not insulated. Frame construction main floor 12' ceilings & 6' windows(@ least 2 in every room but kitchen and baths). Believe the walls are wool insulated as we've discovered there is space between the attic floor and 2nd floor ceiling which is filled with wool insulation then lathe & plaster finish. Haven't torn into the walls, but at some point probably will..just not in a hurry ya know (don't fix if it ain't broke). ANY help is appreciated.
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Take pics from the ends of those rads, so we can see their construction.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
they need to see the # of columns in each section
known to beat dead horses0 -
CORRECTION…if it matters, ceilings are 9' not 12'. Basement is 7', main floor 9'.
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Kitchen can't get a good picture, but if I had to guess based off dimensions(24"x34"x10") it is probably most like the last picture above. TIA
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Hang tight numbers and suggestions will be coming soon. Not from me :) I'm just posting so I can follow along.
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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So…now that you see what I got, did I scare you all away????
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@Jamie Hall or @Steamhead or @EBEBRATT-Ed can help you when they're not out fixing boilers…
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I took a shot at it, but it's a bit of a guess with the information given. So to clarify how sizing works. You measure the height from the floor. Picture showing the end of the radiator so we can see the style and number of tubes/columns and then we need the number of sections, not the measured length.
The approximate number I'm getting is 374 sq ft If you confirm the height you listed is from the floor and confirmed the number of sections per radiator I can refine those numbers and verify if some of my guesses are correct.
That number is then compared to the boiler manufacturers ratings. Below is an example and the one I would choose based on the number is circled. Again need a bit more info to verify what you've got. One thing I can say, what you currently have is certainly massively oversized.
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Living Room 1 and 2: 52"wx12"hx10"d. Please double-check the height measured from the floor. Is it 12", 14", 18"? Also if you could post some higher resolution pics of the circled areas on each end of both of those rads, that would help. Almost nobody made 12" tall 4 column rads, so either the height measurement is incorrect, or I need to find some symbols or writing to nail down the manufacturer.
Study: 14"wx38"hx10"d (United States Radiator Company Capitol, Six tube, 6 sections). EDR: 6 sq. ft./section. 6 x 6 = 36. https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112047386849&seq=241(You should be able to confirm that the length is actually 15", and height is 37").
ofc: 38"w x 31"h x 6"d (United States Radiator Company Capitol, Four tube, 15? sections). EDR: 3.5 sq. ft./section. 3.5 x 15 = 52.5. Confirm that there are 15 sections. https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112047386849&seq=239
kitchen: 24"w x 34"h x 10"d. I would need to see a picture. The height, number of tubes, whether it's tubes or large columns are all important.
front bath: 14"w x 38"h x 8"d (Most likely American Radiator Company Rococo 3 column, 6 sections). EDR: 5 sq. ft./section. 5 x 6 = 30. https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112047386849&seq=40
Dining: 32"w x 45"h x 6"d (Most likely American Radiator Company Rococo 2 column, 13 sections). EDR: 5 sq. ft./section. 5 x 13 = 65. (Confirm the measurements for these two using above link).
Bkbath: 26"w x 26"h x 4"d (American Radiator Company Corto, Three tube, 11? sections). EDR: 2 1/3 sq. ft./section. 2 1/3 x 11 = 25 2/3. https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112047386849&seq=7
For some reason the links I posted have to be copied/pasted. I'm getting everything from Pape Swift here:
Let me know.
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It's been awhile, but isn't there a piping and pickup factor that you have to add to the connected load when sizing a steam boiler?
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour
Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab0 -
No, it's already accounted for in the sq. ft. of steam rating. God knows we don't need to add any more capacity to that already-overcooked value
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
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@random12345 all measurements of the radiators are in inches, not feet and the measurements are from the ground to the tops and from furthest edge to furthest edge of each radiator.
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@Dhines In the first picture above, when you measure the length, it should be along the top as shown by the red line, not including the caps on either end. Center-to-center distance between each section (blue) should be 2.5" for all of your rads. In the second picture above, width is measured at the widest part of each section, not at the top. It probably won't have an impact on the EDR, but just for consistency that's how the catalogs measure these things. This applies to all of your rads, not just the one in the two pics above.
For Living Room 1 and 2: 52"wx12"hx10"d. If you could post some higher resolution pics of the red circled areas on each end of both of those rads, as shown in my previous post, that would help. Almost nobody made 12" tall 4 column rads, so either the height measurement is incorrect, or I need to find some symbols or writing to nail down the manufacturer. It looks like it's 18" tall not 12" btw.
Still don't know what the kitchen rad looks like.
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The manufacturer's rating of the edr output of a boiler has 30% subtracted from it as a pickup factor so the amount of steam is outputs is actually about 30% more. The next smaller size boiler is probably the correct size because 10% is probably more than enough pickup factor for normal residential systems.
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