Steam Boiler?

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

What do you make of this? A new customer in SF says his boiler has been making vibrating sounds for the last year and he sent me photos.
They haven’t been flushing the LWCO.
There’s steam trim on the boiler, but things don’t look right.

ethicalpaul

hmm only been doing it for the past year? Why the big hurry 🤣

If I were in your shoes I'm not sure I'd have stuck around long enough to even photograph it. Why is everything soaking wet? Has it been spewing out of that fitting above the LWCO?

delcrossv

Owner thought enough to put up a plastic tarp. 🙄

Jamie Hall

Where is the water level? I'm not sure I can really make it out, but is it really right at the bottom of the sight glass? Or even below? And is the LWCO functional?

mattmia2

Clogged pigtail? Looks like 1 pipe steam with an old boiler with a big steam chest.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

The owner sent me the pictures. I go out on Monday. I'll blow down the lwco; may need to take it apart and clean it at this stage. Clean the pigtail, replace the relief valve……………

The pressure gauge shows 16psi. The pictures he sent were "Live" and show the relief valve spitting every two seconds. That's where all the water came from.

Thanks, everyone.

delcrossv

I'm wondering about that copper supply(?) pipe at the top of the photos.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

We went out to the job on Monday and familiarized ourselves with the system and with the problem the owners were having. Pictures follow.

It's a one-pipe, parallel flow steam system and there were a few things that caught my attention. It looks like the vents were replaced at some point. The vents are located above the boiler, at the end of the parallel returns. The pipe size was reduced from 1" with a bell reducer and a bushing to fit the tiny, 1/8" air vent. There's no Hartford Loop and at some point, the supply and return to the back of the building was replaced (badly) with copper pipe. The M/M LWCO was replaced in February by a well known, established SF company who didn't tell the owners that it needed to be flushed weekly.

The problem the owners are having is that the system vibrates loudly when the system first starts steaming. You can hear the vibration throughout the building. It's very loud in the boiler room and the connected pipes transmit the sound everywhere. They noticed that it starts sooner when it gets colder outside. I was scratching my head for awhile when I heard the pipes vibrating and then I realized what the culprit was. Any guesses? And while I came up with the solution, I'm not sure what events cause it to happen.

Other contractors had been there to try to figure out what was causing the problem. Their best solution was to replace the boiler.

BTW, Merry Christmas.

Steamhead

47-2 was vibrating as it opened to add make-up water?

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Steamhead gets it in 15 minutes.

Steamhead

Well, as often as I've seen this happen………………

There really is no reason for a 47-2 anymore. We replace these with a Hydrolevel 711C manifold and mount a probe-type LWCO in it, and use a VXT as the feeder. You still have to blow it down, but it gets rid of a lot of moving parts.

But I'd say it really is time to replace that boiler, and correct all the piping mistakes in the process.

ratio

The vent seems an odd place for a bond.

Steamhead

True. If local Code requires the heating pipes be bonded, the drop to the boiler would be a better place since it doesn't get so hot.

And @Alan (California Radiant) Forbes , Gorton makes 1/8" vertical vents up to their size D, which will vent about the same as their #1 vent. How long are those mains, and what pipe size?

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

So, replacing the valve on the 47-2 won’t fix the problem? And does the system use so much water that it needs topping up?
The runs are 40’ long each; looks like 2” pipe.

Jamie Hall

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1829481#Comment_1829481

Which is why @Steamhead is the guru, and the rest of us are humble acolytes…

Those vents are cute. I don't think they are big enough….

And you mention parallel flow and the mains and returns come around and drop at the boiler… I do hope that they join below the water line, please.

Steamhead

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1829516#Comment_1829516

It might, but then again, that thing was just installed and it's vibrating, so would a new valve block be any better?

Each of those mains should get a Gorton #2. This will necessitate removing the vertical nipples and bell reducers from the mains, and installing the proper bushings in the tees, but the difference will be amazing.

Long Beach Ed

The feeder shouldn't be adding water regularly. The MM feeders are safety devices and the boiler level should be regulated by an attendant. As this fellow probably never wants to look at his boiler again, Steamhead's advice to replace the float control with a "smarter" water level control would solve the singing problem.

The MM control sings because the valve modulates. When it starts to open, there's barely a trickle, so it makes noise. The VXT solenoid valve snaps wide open and snaps closed, so no flow sounds like the MM. The Hydrolevel 711C manifold will need to be blown down regularly to remove sludge. If that's not done, you'll have a dangerous situation.

Maybe you can find a way to mount the VXT right on the boiler, but there's not much wisdom in beating on any of those old castings.