Severely corroded steam boiler

oner

We recently bought a house and found the steam boiler is severely rusted and corroded. Please see the pictures below. As first-time house buyers, it was horrifying to see the inside once the covers were taken off.

It's Weil-Mclain EG-55. Some questions:

Is the boiler in this condition still safe to use? What caused it?

109A_5

Hello oner,

Looks like it was leaking, so it was done. Safe maybe, but why take a chance on a CO leak. The efficiency was probably horrible too, steam may have been going up the chimney.

If they are still installing it make sure they do it per the manual. That they get the Near Boiler Piping correct, it is often done wrong, and they skim the boiler to get all the oil out of it from the manufacturing and installation process.

Show us pictures of the new one, it will get thoroughly critiqued here. Get a good fresh start.

EzzyT

I wouldn't operate that boiler in the condition that it is in. Time to replace it along with correcting some of the near boiler piping.

Waher

Time for a new boiler

STEAM DOCTOR

Boiler is ready for retirement. Time to be put out to pasture

ChrisJ

Please.

Please do not just replace it with the same size boiler. Go over all of your radiation and see how much is there first. DO NOT assume an EG-55 was even close to correct. Assume it was oversized and start fresh with your own survey.

dabrakeman

By filling the boiler they can verify that it is actually leaking but it would be surprising if it weren't.

Make sure they go around and measure the sqft of each radiator in the house before putting in a new boiler. Don't let them just assume the new boiler should be the same size as the old. Often they are oversized.

Also after boiler installation have them check all steam vents for possible steam leaks. If am automatic water feeder is installed it is a good idea to have one with a counter used so you know how much water gets added. Too much make up water signifies a leak and results in accelerated boiler corrosion.

KC_Jones

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1825745#Comment_1825745

This, so much this.

Also, even if they measure, don't assume they know how to do it correctly. We've seen plenty of them doing the work wrong and still oversizing the boiler. The sizing is extremely important. If you'd like to do the sizing yourself we can easily help with that, it's not difficult and will help you when shopping contractors to do the work.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Post you location and check "find a contractor " on this site. That boiler doesn't look safe to run.

oner

Thank you all so much for your comments and suggestions. We were angry and shocked to find out, still are. We want to sue for compensation. The seller has been avoiding communication and their attorney said he will counterclaim for fees and damage if we proceed.

Anyway, we got someone to replace it. We had to act fast because it's winter. He suggested a same-size boiler but a cheaper brand Williamson GSA-200. The house is a semi-detached two-story plus a basement with appx 1,000 sqft on each floor. There are 5 radiators on the 2nd floor, 4 radiators on the 1st floor, and 3 in the basement, plus some hot pipes. Is the sizing good?

We're located in Brooklyn NY, but the site doesn't list NY contractors. We do need a reliable contractor in the area for future reference. The contractor we currently working with is not really explaining much to us.

I will post more pictures of piping around the new boiler later if anyone would like to give me some guidance. We are already exhausted from all the fixing today.

Now we found one radiator is cold, and the pipe that connected to it is cold too. Please see the pictures. It's on the upper floor, and the pipe, the white one in the pictures, goes all the way to the basement. This is the only radiator having issues. It was fine the first few days we tested the system, but we needed to turn the valve a few times until it worked. That pipe was definitely hot before. Today we tested it again, the radiator and the pipe were completely cold. Could it be a valve issue since others are working fine? What could be the problem?

109A_5

No home inspection ?

https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/state/NY/

The contractor should have measured all the radiators, calculated the EDR (Equivalent Direct Radiation) and matched the Sq. Feet boiler size to the EDR. Just recommending the same size boiler is lame.

Sure post the pictures they will get thoroughly critiqued here.

The cold radiator, could be the valve or the air vent, or trapped condensate in a sagged pipe.

If you are new to steam, the more you know the better off you will be.

https://heatinghelp.com/store/detail/we-got-steam-heat-a-homeowners-guide-to-peaceful-coexistence/

Other good books on the subject;

https://heatinghelp.com/store/category/steam-heating-books/

Grallert

That's a drag about having to replace your boiler but you will likely be happier in the long run. I wouldn't put too much blame on the previous owner as they could have been completely ignorant of their system. It worked and that's all so many people notice. You could direct you anger at the home inspector. Do get those books mentioned by @109A_5 you'll be much more informed and happy. Good luck and keep us posted.

STEAM DOCTOR

Williamson is a Weil McLain in disguise. No reason to put in another WM unless you happen to need a coil, which you don't. But someone really has to come up with some real numbers instead of just guessing. You can post all of your radiators here. Will need pictures from the front and dimensions of the height and number of sections of each radiator. You mentioned radiators in the basement. Are these Steam radiators? Are they above or below the boiler level?

STEAM DOCTOR

Should have said, pictures from the side. Meaning, we need to see the number of columns or tubes that the radiator has.

STEAM DOCTOR

Screenshot_2024-12-10-07-42-49-36_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

This guy for example, has three columns

Waher

Do NOT buy a boiler that’s the same size. Get an EDR calculation first to properly size the replacement boiler by posting pictures of your radiators here. The near boiler piping requirements are critical for steam. Threaded black pipe only, not copper. Look at the manufacturer piping diagrams.

mattmich

…and six "sections." Now you know the nomenclature.

» "two-story plus a basement with appx 1,000 sqft on each floor. There are 5 radiators on the 2nd floor, 4 radiators on the 1st floor, and 3 in the basement, plus some hot pipes. Is the sizing good?"

12 radiators x 40 squ ft EDR average = 480 square feet of EDR.

There's no such thing as a standard size radiator, but that's what MY average is in a 1929 house, and the few you've shown don't look so different. It's worth going through the EDR "discovery" process — I've done it in my 'corroded firebox' discussion, if you want an example — but it's going to be "around" 500. Sounds about right for 2000 square feet of house + some basement radiators.

Since most contractors will err on the side of too large, your boiler is probably suitable — not crazily too big, and I'd be shocked if it's too small.

If it's a Weil-McLain in drag, that's a well-respected brand. My old one lasted 32 years.

Another piece of good news: we don't see enough of your near-boiler piping, but what we see is cast iron, which is what it should be, both risers are plumbed in, also good, and you have unions to re-make the connections.

Since an EG-55 is the same size as your new GSA-200 at 200 MBTU/hour energy input, it'll be the same number of sections and it'll be plug-and-play. Meaning if the old one worked well, the new one will, too.

Good luck!

cheers -m

mattmich

Forgot to add: An EG-55 can be "down-fired" to become an EG-50 by changing out the burner assembly. That's probably under $200 in parts. Seven of the eight burner tubes can then be re-used, and no other modification is needed. In Willamson speak, that's going from your GSA-200 to a GSA-175, or 521 to 454 in terms of EDR.

Figuring out the EDR is your first step; the sizing may be perfect as-is.

ethicalpaul

there are definitely NYC contractors on the Find A Contractor page

Never ever just let them tell you they are using the same size

Jamie Hall

Ah folks, if you read the whole thread you'll find that the OP has already replaced the boiler. It's all very well to carry on about correct sizing, but what's done is done.

Now, @oner , as has been said there are a number of good contractors in the New York metropolitan area. I'm surprised that you couldn't find one in "Find a Contractor". If you're still having troubles, contact @JohnNY .

On the one cold radiator. make sure the valve is open first — it may not be; given the state of that boiler, the valve may be bad. Also check the vent. If none of that shows up as a problem, trace how far steam gets in the pipe; if you find a horizontal sort of length it may be holding water and blocking steam if it isn't pitched properly.

mattmich

Yes, he has a new Williamson installed — hat's why I pointed out the downfiring option.

It'll still be important to know the EDR, because it will point the way to dealing with any issues that might come up.

If oversized, I'd pay particular attention to the Pressuretrol settings.

If undersized, proper balance in venting will be the most important thing, and the pressure will never go high enough be become an issue.

I'd be surprised if the EDR doesn't come in between the 175 and 200 MBTU sizes.

ethicalpaul

Yesterday they asked "Is the boiler in this condition still safe to use? What caused it?"

And today they already have an oversized boiler installed?

If there's anything more annoying than a fellow homeowner coming here after they get a new oversized boiler installed, it's a fellow homeowner coming here and teasing us with questions that are either in the past, or whose answers are swiftly ignored and having an oversized boiler installed anyway.

Granted, I don't know for a fact that this boiler is oversized, but we've all been to this rodeo before.

KC_Jones

I am happy to stick my neck out here. Based on what's pictured I'm going to say, not only is it oversized, it's comically oversized. I'd Bet money there is no more than 350 sq ft of radiation in that house. If that's the case they should have installed the GSA-125, the GSA-150 at the absolute maximum.

Do you have pictures of the installation of the new boiler? I ask only to see if they installed it correctly. The sizing is super easy, so if they can't get that part correct, I have doubts about getting the installation correct.

Agree with above, there is plenty of talent listed on this site for NY, some of the best in the business in fact.

mattmia2

@JohnNY @clammy and @EzzyT are some of the best people in steam and i believe work in NYC. There are a few others here that are in NYC that are also very good. Probably not too late to hold back a contingency to see if it works correctly and follows the manual and industry best practices.

109A_5

I have an EDR of 347 with 9 radiators and only one of mine is tall like theirs and it is not very long. So their boiler may be close. The next size down boiler may be too small, but without doing the due diligence you just don't know for sure.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Dying to see the pictures of the nice new shiny undersized copper piping and if it even has a header.

mattmich

I'm more hopeful than Ed.

The Path Of Least Resistance will lead to flanging onto the existing risers, which at a minimum have a lot of vertical height above the waterline. I spy a Hartford Loop in the original pictures also, and what looks like the downward part of an equalizer.

If the old system ran well, the new one will, too.

And if there's betting to be had, I put my fiddy bucks on EDR > 400. Two thousand square feet of living space + basement radiators? Can't be that much less than my house and I had 470 originally, with nothing in the basement.