Do I need all this stuff? (plumbing)

SomeTradesJack

H2O supply.jpg

Installing boiler on other side of basement. Is it OK to relocate the copper piping? I'm assuming this is some type of backflow prevention? Plumbed like the service line, but it's actually the 2nd valve.

Jamie Hall

OMG. Who was the rocket scientist who put a pipe — grounded, no less — over a live electrical socket?

I have no idea why the loop is there in the piping. Whimsy. It's not doing anything as far as backflow or any other kind of protection might be wanted.

Not only do you need to relocate that pipe, you need to shut off power to that socket until the piping is corrected.

Now there is a joker in the deck: higher up on the pipe, just even with the top of the plywood holding that rat's nest of wires, there is a ground clamp and ground wire. It is possible (though I do hope not) that that may be your main ground connection. If so, you also need to establish a to code house main ground before you do anything to that pipe, and to do that you will need to disconnect your entire house power from the grid (at the meter or at the main shutoff breaker) until you get a proper ground established

delcrossv

Or, put in your stake, connect new ground in parallel to the old one and remove the old ground. 😉

No lifted ground/ grid disconnect required.

EdTheHeaterMan

Do I need all this stuff? 

I don't think so. Most people are using cell phones now. those old land line wires are probably not in use,

You don't need them in my opinion

EdTheHeaterMan

Seriously, is that 3/4" piping with a 1/2" tee going to a stop and waste valve all closes system piping? it looks more to e like the cold water line to the home (judging by the color of the copper). Heating pipes don't seem to get that dark color the way cold water pipes do. Unless they are really old.

Anyway, there is no need for a heating pipe to be installed in that up over down piping design. So move those pipes as needed. But take care about the ground wire. In times gone by, when there were copper water service lines from the municipal water system, lots of folks used them for the electrical ground. If that is your only electrical ground, I would be SHOCKED if it were removed in some SHORT way before you were GROUNDED properly.

delcrossv

Oh, and having a valve between the ground and the supply pipe coming out of the floor is a no-no.

hot_rod

if that is the cold water supply, it looks like a water softener loop

SomeTradesJack

Thanks, folks. Love this board. The ground is for Ma Bell, long deceased. I have a new 200A service WITH a ground (there was none before)—that was the 1st mechanical improvement. Take it from me, Joe Homeowner should not trench 350' and do his own conduit. Long story, but got it done and I was so proud of myself. Until the power company pointed out that I had inadvertently glued in the pull tape. Then they showed me a neat trick with a plastic bag and a shop vac to pull a new one. So much learning.

Anyway, Ed, that is the water supply, not heating. No water softener. At least not since I've been here.

If you think that's a rat's nest of phone cable, you should see the fancy low-voltage relay system for lights in the attic with 127 transformers and all the wiring embedded in plaster. Kid #1 says to me: "Dad, there's this awful buzzing sound from the attic." Me: "Just put on your earphones." Alas, that system is also decommissioned.

So much learning. Thankful for Dan H. and acolytes.

PC7060

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1815856#Comment_1815856

I’ve worked with worse….. Can’t imagine how this panel ever passed inspection. The entire panel was relocated and drain lines remove during the renovation but panel work during early phases was a real treat 😞

mattmia2

That ground clamp isn't a type that is listed for a grounding electrode system, it is probably for the protector for that phone network interface. if you remove the copper pipe and replace it with nonmetalic you need to connect a bonding wire to the grounding electrode system of the service and and of the things that are bonded to the copper pipe. If the phone drop is still there you need to keep it bonded.

It looks like they had a lot of phone outlets or maybe even a pbx or something but it looks like it was all neat until someone that didn't care got to it.

Was there laundry equipment at that location at some point or something? That is how you make an expansion joint but it doesn't look like the pipe is constrained there. Maybe something was removed there but that pipe doesn't really look reworked.

those ge low voltage contactor systems are great.

SomeTradesJack

Interesting. Lots of mysteries & ghosts in this ol' house. Phone drop is gone b/c it was overhead on poles, along with sodium vapor lights. This place must have been lit up like a Christmas tree. There's conduit on the gutters and floodlights on the eaves. Previous owner who stuck 2 mid-century additions onto a Victorian in the 1950's, along with the dreaded relay lighting obviously had $$ to burn. Door bell chimes in every room, multiple telephone jacks (even by the pooper & outside), bell system to summon the help, etc. Entire joist cavities filled with runs of low voltage wire. And snakeskin. And the remnants of K&T wiring with octopus-like taped splices buried in the ceilings, etc. Coax to every room, run in the gutters and over the roofs. An AC system that I can't find the evaporator or blower for (maybe buried in the floor?).

Thankfully the plumbing is more straight-forward, although I found a gravity? recirc line tapped onto the wrong (hot) side of the hot water heater. 118K boilers. 5" copper drain lines. A huge abandoned radiator in the garage, but no glycol, so the whole thing froze the first year we were here (on a holiday, naturally). Clay tile leach field, a massive brick-lined fresh water cistern in the yard—I guess from when water was delivered? Multiple redundant sprinkler systems with 19 zones. A tennis court. And the list goes on. What a project.

Again, much thanks to all on this board who have helped. Looking forward to my new boiler install.

PC7060

Cisterns were typically fed by captured rain water off roof.

jumper

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1815921#Comment_1815921

How do I minimise bird poop?

PC7060

Interesting question.
The cistern is the house where I grew up was set up for cloths washing and such. A deeper ground well provided for drinking water. Both retired well before my time.

mattmia2

There was some island that this old house did a house on where they did use the cistern water for drinking but as far as i know in the us cistern water was used as non potable water.

psb75

Cistern water was used for washing because they knew it was naturally 'soft.' Rain gutters were typically piped to the cistern(s). We had two lined cisterns under the farmhouse with hand/pitcher pumps above them draining to wash sinks. The rain gutters were made of oak logs fashioned with a gutter adze. They are now buried in the soffits.