Home heating oil pipe
I have a oil tank in my garage and one in my basement about 100 feet away. The previous owner had a garden hose from the garage to the basement. I want to replace that with pipe for obvious reasons, but what kind of pipe do I use? Black or galvanized? The pipe would be kept above ground. Thank you!
Comments
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You can use Copper tubing. I would get a roll of 5/8" OD (1/2" plumbing size) and use flare fittings from the bottom tank valve to the basement tank. How do you want to connected to the basement tank? You want to be carefull that you do not let the garage tank which is higher to over fill the basement tank and spill all over the basement floor.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Mueller-Industries-58REF50-5-8-OD-x-50-Copper-Refrigeration-Tubing-Coil
Or you can use 3/8" OD copper, It's less expensive, but it will take much longer to get that oil to flow to the basement.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Is that supply line in any position where it can get damaged? Lawn mowers, weed whackers, snowplows?
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Like Ed said that is #1 Concern
"You want to be carefull that you do not let the garage tank which is higher to over fill the basement tank and spill all over the basement floor."
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As I said the two tanks are already connected by a garden hose that runs along our fence line. It's pretty well protected, but I would much rather have pipe than a garden hose. The tank in the garage has a shut off valve. Also there is a short piece of angled pipe next to the house that goes into the basement to the tank. We have a cap on that and take it off when we have to fill it. To fill the basement tank, one person turns it on in the garage while another is in basement watching the fill level. There is some pipe that comes out of the garage before it connects to the hose. Looks black but could be galvanized for all I know. The tank at the garage is easier access to fill for oil company and we use it just to store the oil until we need it down at the house.
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Ed, I would much rather use black pipe or galvanized if possible. I'm not adept at soldering copper piping and would rather avoid that.
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You don't solder oil lines. Use flare connections.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
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Can you post some pictures of the setup, and the "hose", and what you're trying to accomplish by connecting the two? Because what you're doing sounds very scary, and does not exactly adhere to any code that I know of.
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I am not a fan of your description of the storage tank situation. It appears that you have yo be home to accept an oil delivery and make manual adjustments to the storage system. When human intervention is required, there are more possibilities for human error.
How easy would it be to make both tanks be at the same level? Then you need not make adjustments as the fuel is used.
But to answer your question, I would use Black iron pipe indoors, Galvanized pipe outdoors.
What is the advantage to having 2 oil tanks? do you burn that much oil that you need more than 250 (actual usable amount) of storage? Is there that much savings on a 300+ gallon delivery? is that savings enough to justify cleaning up an oil spill at $10,000.00 to $2,000,000.00?
does your insurance company even cover fuel oil spills?
I personally would not put additional money in to that design. Money is better spent moving the garage oil tank to the basement!
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Please understand, this was set up like this when we bought the house. A 2nd house for us. We have natural gas at home. The oil is easily delivered to the tank in the garage. The valve from that tank to the one in the basement is always shut off until we open it to fill the basement tank. I don't like the fact that a garden hose has been the means to transfer oil from one tank to the other so just want to use pipe which
to me would be the smarter idea. Here are a few pics. The first of the oil tank in the garage, the second the connection of the pipe running out of the garage to the hose, and last the pipe outside the house where we put the hose in. I'll probably use the galvanized piping. Do I have to do anything to protect it from the elements? Thanks again.
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because it was like that when you bought the property doesn’t matter.
wrong is wrong.1 -
If you have natural gas to the house you should think about a new gas boiler or Power Burner natural gas conversion burner if you can find a qualified tech. With the looks of that I would be worried about what else is not even close to being safe, or reasonable close. I know you came here because you know that it is not right, now is the time to bring it up to a fully safe system not one that just changes out the garden hose, that is still piped wrong and a big spill hazard. it's not worth the risk.
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Since I haven't a clue about what is safe and not safe about this, can someone please explain why it isn't safe?
Also we don't have natural gas here. I would have to get propane which seems would be a major expense.
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Are the two tanks sitting at the same hight ? If they are on different levels , you can't pipe together with out creating a Hazard …….
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If the shut off valve at the garage tank is left "off" at all times it also should be capped off when you are not filling the basement tank in case someone opens the valve by accident…. oil spills are expensive Likewise the hose/fill connection at the house tank should be capped when not in use.
I am not in favor of using a hose between tanks because a hose can deteriorate and crack when left outdoors exposed to the elements.
If you continue to use the hose, make sure the valves are shut off and capped and the hose is only used with someone in constant attendance, Galvanized pipe would be a better option.
A better option would be to have the oil truck fill the basement tank. I am sure there is some way to make the fill and vent pipe with an alarm whistle accessible to the driver
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I haven't chimed in — folks seem to have covered this pretty well — except for one things: the reason I am frankly horrified at the garden hose idea is that over time the oil can and will attack the material of which the hose is made. Now if the valve at the outside tank is always off, OK — though always is a dubious fail safe measure — but one of these days you will open that valve and the garden hose will burst. If you are there and can see the length of it, OK, it will be a minor spill, but still not what you want.
I'd use copper pipe myself, and I'd get a long enough coil as to reach the full length with no joints except, obviously, at the ends. Fewer points to fail.
I'd also see if I could find a float controlled shut off for the system, so that you CAN'T overfill the basement tank, even if someone isn't paying attention.
I still don't like the setup, but…
You are quitee right — in most areas propane is anywhere from more expensive, per BTU, or wildly more expensive.
(I always get a slight chuckle out of "if you have natural gas" — considering that the vast majority of the land area of the US does not have natural gas, nor any likelihood of getting it, it seems an oddly urban oriented question. But maybe that's because I live on a farm…)
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England2 -
One last question, I hope...if I use the copper does it need to be protected from the elements? If so, how?
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The best pipe to use is copper with a plastic cover. Even Amazon has it:
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
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Garden hose ? Oil? Nope. Manual intervention needed for a n oil delivery ? Nope. Just a disaster waiting to happen and a very expensive one at that. My issue when buying houses as always been if you find one kludge like this that is so obvious ( and would have sent me running from the purchase as fast as I could )_ probably means there are many more at least questionable DIY disasters lurking below the surface in other areas. I have the T-Shirt and the empty checkbook from correcting "mistakes" from prior owners.
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The tank at the house should have its own fill and vent, with a separate delivery directly to that tank, with no piping at all between the two tanks.
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Two connected oil tanks at different levels ALWAY have the potential for the lower tank to receive TOO MUCH VOLUME and spill over. A valve between them is never… ALWAYS safe. Unless someone at that property NEVER forgets. The driver delivering fuel to the outdoor tank is not responsible for checking the status of that valve.
#2 fuel oil (diesel) and garden hose rubber have bad chemistry together. Hose is always vulnerable to mowers, rodents, garden tools etc.
No one has asked about outdoor winter temps in this location. Any fuel gel-ling happening 'round about winter time?
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This system has a high probability of failing with a high cost. These are the situations in life that you want to rethink ASAP.
A garden hose can fail at any time. It is not tested for fuel oil or its additives, so I would expect accelerated deterioration.
Repiping might be lower risk but it doesn't take much to damage. Falling tree, construction, fence removal, etc. The elements will take their toll over time. There should be regulations for outdoor transfer of fuel oil that might provide some guidance but this is such a risky proposition...
A glimpse into the oil spill business should be a wake up call. These are interesting videos in any case:
https://www.youtube.com/@TankMastersEnvironmental
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(I always get a slight chuckle out of "if you have natural gas" — considering that the vast majority of the land area of the US does not have natural gas
As you know, people aren't distributed evenly over the land area of the US. They tend to put natural gas where there is a high density of people, so it's not at all an unreasonable question.
The vast majority of land area of the US doesn't have anything but rocks and weeds.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
In order to understand how most people deal with fuel oil tank deliveries, Many who ar at work when this happens, you should read this article:
https://www.fuelsnap.com/blog/how-to-fill-a-home-heating-oil-tank/
To understand why professionals and others on this site are somewhat horrified with your setup, you need to understand that many of us deal with many customers over the years and have had experience where oil has found its way from the tank to the ground around a home. when that happens the cause could be an irregular storage tank situation that the average homeowner may not understand. But no understanding what can happen may cost you thousands of dollars in remediation costs. We are just trying to make your life easier.
Now I know that you are smart enough to make sure this never happens, but… What if you are on vacation or in the hospital and a friend is watching the place for you and there is no heat in the house. The helpful friend assumes that you have no heat because the basement tank is empty. The helpful friend has watched you do this before ans puts the feed line from the garage tank into the basement fill pipe. then he opens the garage tank valve to fill the basement tank. Just about the time when the basement tank is almost full, the phone rings and your helpful friend gets distracted and there is still 75 gallons of fuel in the garage tank but no more room in the basement tank. You come home from the hospital or vacation to a back yard with 75 gallons of fuel oil in the ground.
And I have seen this happen more than once. cost the homeowner big $$$$ for that cleanup.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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@ethicalpaul — the community which Cedric's home is in is a semi suburban/semi rural community, 20 miles from Hartford, CT, with a population of about 9,000. Hardly rocks and weeds. There is no natural gas in the community, and zero probability of there ever being any (there was town gas, once, in one of the village centers). Further, with the exception of one larger city (Torrington), there is no natural gas anywhere in either Litchfield or Tolland counties of Connecticut, nor most of the western counties of Massachusetts, nor most of Vermont or New Hampshire — never mind most of upstate New York and Maine.
Now. Climbing down off the soapbox…
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England2 -
I apparently did a bad job of communicating that it's not strange to ask someone if they have natural gas given that so many people do come to these forums with natural gas. No disrespect intended!
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
"What ever can happen ,Will happen "
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Heck, in the township where I live in southern New Jersey, fuel oil is the oddity. There are no oil dealers in this town of 90,000 and virtually everyone heats with natural gas. The town was developed post 1960 so that is likely a big factor.
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I don’t see how that fits into this discussion but …….. you have oil and 2 tanks.
both tanks need to be on the same elevation AKA same hight.
if different elevation then a manual transfer is used. A small pump so someone is there to monitor.1 -
Just don't get distracted as the fuel is transferring.
I used to operate a fuel oil delivery service from a gas station that had a 10,000 underground storage tank for the Diesel Fuel pump. We had a 40 yer old gasoline powered pump with a 2" inlet hose that that I would drop into the underground tank fill pipe. There was a 3" discharge hose that I would put into the top of my oil truck. I was filling the truck one day and was called away for a second, that turned into 10 minutes. What a mess!
Not an ideal setup but is was inexpensive… until it wasn't
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Well.
I can find a million dollars on the sidewalk but I don't see it happening.
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment0 -
@ChrisJ, you are just not looking hard enough!
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I could find an abandoned 1931 Duesenberg SJ too, but I don't see that happening either!
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment0 -
@ChrisJ, AGAIN… looking on the wrong sidewalk
Sorry for hijacking your serious discussion about the proper oil line @ThreeMile
But that coated fuel line comes in 100 ft coils if you are interested. Most common size is 3/8" OD so you might want to add a pump to speed up the transfer.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Thank you Ed for the information and explaining the risks. I will get the covered copper and learn how to do flared fittings. Someone recommended adding a valve at the house to shut it off on that end in case the one at the garage is accidentally opened. We plan on replacing the basement tank next year, so maybe at that time I will discuss with our fuel delivery company if they can deliver right to the house. We aren't there most of the winter. We go up about once a month for a weekend or part of a week. Last winter we only had to transfer the oil from the garage once. Again thanks for explaining the risks. I want to make it right, one reason why we are getting rid of the garden hose.
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Look up flaring on youtube, you'll figure it out.
Some of the reasonably priced tools on Amazon will work more than good enough for what you're after. Just make sure you do some practice flares first and try to leave some extra material when you're doing the real ones in case you mess up.
The #1 mistake everyone makes, including pros is forgetting to put the nut on the tube before doing the flare. Then you get to cut it off and do it again.
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment2 -
Yep , That's the reason for the notch in the roller of a tubing cutter :)
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