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Daikin Heat Pump Recall

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Steamhead
Steamhead Member Posts: 17,008
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting
GGross

Comments

  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 1,105
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    "remote software update for the units" I wish the recalls I have had to deal with were that easy! lol

    ethicalpaul
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,008
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    Well, we don't know how successful those will be 😲

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,840
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    Unfortunately all the equipment made today is 10-year-old disposable junk

    pecmsgkcopp
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,261
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    I have installed several of them. The Amana branded units. They are wicked awesome systems, unlocking new levels of comfort. One of the very neatest features is during setup, you enter your address and have the option to select an engineered system profile for your geographical location.

    The recall is an OTA (over the air) software update. It will happen automatically for all except those who don't have their controller connected to wifi. The update will make the system confirm position of the 4-way reversing valve.

    ethicalpaul
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,962
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    Why would i have a heat pump connected to wi fi? it opens up security vulnerabilities that have no reason to exist.

    PC7060
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,922
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    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Harvey RamerethicalpaulGGross
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,261
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    Another reason is, in the event of an error I get an alert on my phone. I can do a complete diagnosis from my phone or computer and show up with the part needed to do the repair.

    ChrisJethicalpaul
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,840
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    The WI FI is great for those that want it. But it shouldn't be forced on the customer in order to get correct equipment operation.

  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,261
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    It's optional in every case I have seen. This recall can be addressed manually as well. Turn on your Hotspot on your phone or tablet to provide a temporary uplink for the thermostat. Download and install the update and then disconnect again.

    Times; they are a'changing.

    PC7060
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,008
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    There have been cases where Wi-Fi heating and cooling equipment was hacked, and the buildings burglarized. I would never recommend any sort of Wi-Fi connectivity to my customers because of this.

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,240
    edited July 7
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    WiFi connectivity of IOT devices needs to be considered on a case by case basis. We only allow IOT devices to be connected to WIFI located outside of the primary business network firewall.

    biggest risk are units connected without updating the default user name and passwords. Creates a perfect platform for denial of services attacks.

  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,701
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    Everyone always laughs when I say that remote access for consumer-grade (& some/most/all commercial grade?) equipment is for Chinese hackers to adjust your temperature settings. It may have other uses as well, but figure on that for sure.

    Seriously, if your networked anything hasn't yet been hacked, there's only a few reasons why: it already has but you don't know it, or they haven't gotten around to it. Those seven people running with strong security know: it's really hard to do security well.

    PC7060ethicalpaul
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,962
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    why would it need to be updated? embedded system design isn't hard if you hire actual imbedded system engineers to design it. i have a 22 year old car, none of that firmware has needed to be changed.

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,922
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    This thread is literally about them needing an update.

    I do not know how to code nor do I know why they need an update. But obviously they do.

    :)

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,261
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    Daikin literally invented/built VRV technology. They don't lack in the engineering department.

    This is a situation where a momentary power outage drops the reversing valve solenoid, causing it to default to heat mode. If the power comes back on before the PCB has recognized the condition, it continues in heating mode while it thinks it's in cooling. The PCB operates on DC voltage and doesn't drop out immediately due to capacitors ect.

  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,701
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    A race condition. Neat!

    Embedded coding is hard, too.

    The push for connected devices has a lot of sources. User convenience is the least important one. Call me a cynic, but I think the greatest one is the groundwork for pay-to-use, closely followed by personal information → ad revenue.

    Harvey Ramer
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,962
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    If you can't tell that the system is running in heating rather than cooling mode you aren't looking at the feedback you are getting from anything. That is just poor design of your program.

  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,240
    edited July 7
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  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,795
    edited July 8
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    Which can be easily fixed with an update.


    to make something that can’t be updated be good and robust takes huge QA effort. Which means huge time and money. If it ships broke, it stays broke. I know this is understood by people here.


    to let something be updatable lets manufacturers get good stuff that’s less than perfect into consumers’ hands faster and cheaper and sometimes makes it be possible at all.


    by the way, fear of hacking? Good. But your bank, all your stores you frequent, your hospital, your insurance provider, your govt and your employer, and probably your uncle have all been hacked and your data is out there. That ship has sailed.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,701
    edited July 8
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    Hmmmm. Not really in favor of being able to ship an incomplete and/or faulty product because it'll be too expensive to do it right & fixes can be applied later anyway if anyone complains.

    Not too afeared of getting 'hacked' either. Not like I've got the money Ford does. But, I sure don't like doing so much of the work for them.

    EDIT: I was going for mild, good-natured snark, not angry or anything.

    PC7060mattmia2ethicalpaul
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,261
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  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,922
    edited July 8
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    I think you completely missed his point.

    It's not about shipping a faulty product.

    It's about doing their testing, finding all looks good and shipping it knowing if something unforeseen comes up they can just update it.

    Rather then testing for a long time and trying to make sure it's absolutely perfect because it can never be fixed.

    I'm sure your PCs and phones all get updates and fixes constantly. As do your TVs, cars etc.

    You know when the first monitor tops were made they did all kinds of testing on them and they seemed flawless. But after they shipped a few hundred they found under certain conditions they had trouble with refrigerant condensing in the oil sump. They then invented the crankcase heater. Shame it wasn't an easy software update.

    No product is ever perfect at first.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,795
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    Not really in favor of being able to ship a

    n incomplete and/or faulty

     product because it'll be too expensive to do it right & fixes can be applied later anyway if anyone complains.


    I can understand your position here, you want products to be right. I do too!


    But the marketplace has decided, by definition, that things went the other way

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el