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Broken pipe, seeping valve

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delcrossv
delcrossv Member Posts: 781
edited June 25 in THE MAIN WALL

Copper main has a hole at my MIL's house. 50 year old gate is slowly seeping water past the valve.

Should I use the "ball of white bread" trick so I can solder or is there something that works better?

Thanks!

Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.

Comments

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,833
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    If the valve is leaking slow enough and you want to put a new valve downstream there is the bread trick but that will only work with a very small leak. They make Jet Sweat which is a plug that fits through a full port ball valve. There is also Propress where you can crimp a fitting on with water pouring out and there is shark bite which I am not in favor of.

    You may also to sweat 1/2 of a copper union on if you stuff the pipe with bread and work fast.

    What do you mean by "copper main has a hole"?

    Do you mean you want to fix a leak but the valve will not hold?

    Some supply houses will rent a Propress Machine.

    Mad Dog_2
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 781
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    Yes, I need to cut out and replace a section but the main shutoff isn't 100% (slow leak through valve).

    I guess I can try the bread first and then go with a ball valve and a jet swet if that doesn't work. I'd just rather not have a ball valve buried in the ceiling if I can avoid it.

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
    Mad Dog_2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,944
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    What I did for this, granted it was 24 year old and much less risk averse me, is i cracked the union at the meter and put a bucket under it while i sweated the fitting.

    Compression and flare fittings are also options. I would have a compression fitting and a cap that fits that compression fitting ready to go if I try the crack the meter union trick.

    Mad Dog_2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,944
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    You could also have the utility turn off the curb stop while you replaced the gate valve.

    JUGHNEdelcrossvMad Dog_2HotanCool
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,104
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    I would do the curb stop shut off and replace the gate valve with a high quality ball valve.

    If you have one leak you will have more of them to come bite you in the butt.

    Mad Dog_2GrallertHotanCool
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,635
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    If the curb stop shuts off. I do like optimistic people…

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    delcrossvIntplm.Mad Dog_2ethicalpaul
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,915
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    It probably will.

    And if it doesn't isn't it the water company's problem?

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Mad Dog_2
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,915
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    I didn't think there was anywhere that considered a curb stop to not be the property of the water company.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,952
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  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 781
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    In any event, I'd rather not deal with the village or the curb stop.

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
    ChrisJ
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,241
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    I've never used the bread trick...Done them on the fly, Jet Sweat, Dry Ice. What's wrong with "burying" a ball valve? Not a big deal. Every water district, City, town or village I have worked in will give you a shut down. Many times -gratis - They don't want you to break something. Even if it's a $75 fee...well worth it. Mad Dog 🐕

    delcrossv
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 781
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    Dry Ice. Hmmm.

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,915
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    It's a day late, but better than never.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    delcrossvCLambLRCCBJAlan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 781
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    Well, that could be a problem.

    Weird how it just popped out after 65 years. 🤔

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,408
    edited June 28
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    Honey, I'm going to buy a ProPress. It's for your Mom. 😁

    GrallertCLambdelcrossvIntplm.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,944
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    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Spin-Tools-F1078-7-8-Flaring-Tool

    or a hammer flare tool if you can find one for 7/8"

  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 781
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    Nah, new sweep el and some tin/silver solder. Once I opened other fixtures, the drip stopped.

    I'm all set up for soldering and brazing, so I don't see a pro-press in my immediate future.

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
    ChrisJ
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,944
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    btw the popped out is probably because it doesn't have room to expand and the solder fatigued after being stressed repeatedly from expansion and contraction of the run of pipe for decades. happens a lot in electronics and is blamed on a bad factory soldering job but it is poor mechanical design

    delcrossvPRR
  • bburd
    bburd Member Posts: 930
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    @delcrossv is there an expansion tank on the domestic water heater? Most newer water meters have a built-in backflow preventer that can cause pressure buildup in the system during a water heating cycle unless there is an expansion tank somewhere.


    Bburd
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 781
    edited June 29
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    No, but this is a cold water feed to a sillcock. Meter's probably 30 years old.

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,944
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  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 781
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    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 781
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    Traced it. Heating risers to fin tube on the first floor. Facing west and north. Zone valve was off and the line froze. Now I get to replace about 30' of tube and the other end popped out as well.

    Grrrrr.

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • Stet
    Stet Member Posts: 42
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    If you are bent on soldering I would get a Jet Swet plug. I bought a whole Jet Swet kit for about $200. Runs from 1/2" size to 2".

    You can plug the pipe, Slip on your new ball valve, solder or use copper tite., then loosen and pull out the plug.

    These plugs have save me a number of times, Especially with a leak on a lower floor. If you dont do propress and are against Shark Bites, this is your answer.

    delcrossv
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
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    All this time, I thought we were talking about a leak on the domestic side.

    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    ChrisJ
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,944
    edited July 11
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    I think they found another frozen pipe near this fitting…

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,472
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    A wet vac does a good job of evacuating 3/4 hydronic piping.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    mattmia2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,944
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    That's what I used to remove the water that i used to flush the new underground piping to my garage before filling that system with glycol so I could have a reasonable idea of the concentration.

  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 781
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    Just drained the boiler. I'm good.

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 781
    edited July 11
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    "All this time, I thought we were talking about a leak on the domestic side."

    That was the initial thought.

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • Steamfighter49
    Steamfighter49 Member Posts: 21
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    A ball valve is far better than a gate. Would also consider an expansion fitting or loop.
    Propress has been around for a while now and I no of no problems when properly installed.
    Many places will rent, or if you know one of us guys, lend it to you. Or not.