AFCI Circuit Breakers
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It has been awhile, some ten years ago.There is a way to screw that up
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Chris is correct, AFCI (and GFCI) require both neutral and hot side to be connected to breaker. AFCI have a GFP function built in so will definitely trip if power return doesn’t match power out.
“The standard AFCIs have GFP and not GFCI protection built in. The term GFCI should be reserved for “people protective equipment”. A GFCI has a ground fault trip level of 4 to 6 mA, but the GFP in an AFCI has a trip level of 30 to 50 mA.” - from a way back Mike Holt Forum thread
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AFCI & GFCI breakers have problems with multiwire circuits.
Multi wire circuits the two hot wire must come off different phases so that the neutral is not overloaded. If the two hots come off the same phase the neutral has to carry the current from both breakers and could become overloaded.
Multi wire circuits should come off a 2-pole breaker or at a minimum 2 single pole breakers with a handle ty between the breakers.
If you have a fused panel and the wires, come off different phases or a breaker panel and the circuit comes off single pole breakers that are not handle tied together that is an issue although it was legal at one time in the past.
The issue is if they come off separate breakers or fuses and someone works on the circuit and one breaker is turned off you can still have power in the junction or devise box and if the neutral is disconnected while working on it you could get a shock from that or the other live wire if it exists in the box you are working on.
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You can afci or gfci protect a multiwire circuit if you use a 2 pole afci or gfci breaker or if you use a protective receptacle after the common neutral connections.
I think that the rule that multiwire circuits must have a 2 pole breaker or handle tie or 2 pole fuse carrier or other interlocked disconnecting means only applies to residential work.
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2023 code 2104b
" each mulitwire branch circuit shall be provided with a means that will simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors at the point that the branch circuit originates"
It hasn't always been this way.
I don't believe there are any AFCI/GFCI 2 pole breakers available.
So you could install a 2 pole AFCI breaker and put GFCI receptacles in where the circuit splits to provide GFCI protection if needed.
The cost of doing this 1 two pole afci breaker and 2 gfci receptacles with 3 wire cable versus the cost of 2 single pole AFCI/GFCI breakers with 2 runs of two wire cable means at least in new construction most would take the second choice.
When rewiring many time you can't get a GFCI receptacle into an existing receptacle box legally with the # of existing wires as the box fill calculations change a few years ago
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https://www.lowes.com/pd/Square-D-QO-20-Amp-2-Pole-Combination-Arc-Fault-Circuit-Breaker/50311201
That's listed as a "Combination Arc Fault Circuit Breaker" but I have no idea what that means.
I've never touched an arc fault breaker. So far I've been lucky.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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I have installed Wiremold extension boxes over existing boxes to get room for the GFCI outlet.
Used the deeper ones as the mounting plate closes the box opening up somewhat.
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Chris, this what I referred to in my earlier comment; it a combination of AFCI and GFP protection.
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This sound like the conclusion,right or wrong, that I concluded to.
At work, after a men and women restroom refurb, the gfci outlets would trip frequently. After a couple months, we had the electricians pull all the wire and start over. They pulled from two panels and crossed neutrals. After they rewired, we stopped having tripped outllets. Touchy little buggers.
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I've seen on the shelf 14/2/2 romex—two sets of conductors & one ground in the same jacket. Curiously, it cost more than two rolls of 14/2, so I guess they don't want to sell it all that much.
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combination afci is the newer afci standard that if i recall detects line-netral and line-ground arcs. the first version only detected one path. the combined afci and gfci breakers are called "dual function"
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Yes GFCI/AFCI breakers are called dual function. The romex @ratio mentioned is like 14/2/2 or 12/2/2 Never seen it myself.
14/3 usually costs more that 2 14/2s.
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Utilities will Never confess to power quality issues and they are often aware of them. I have several large commercial customers who monitor power quality and the results are eye-opening.
This must be either caused by a power spike or an issue with the Neutral at the service entrance or on the utility side of things.
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
Albert Einstein1 -
It would not be difficult to construct a cheap monitor with something like a dsp chip and a raspberry pi.
I have heard that other hams have had success with getting problems that cause RFI fixed by the utility when we find them.
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