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Chicago Natural Gas Ban

WMno57
WMno57 Member Posts: 1,408
edited January 2024 in THE MAIN WALL
This is breaking news. I will try to keep this up to date.

Mayor Brandon Johnson is pushing a plan that would end natural gas hookups in new buildings and homes as the city aims to phase out fossil fuels that intensify the climate crisis, but the idea is already drawing resistance from some unions.

Johnson plans to introduce a “clean” buildings ordinance Wednesday that would end new gas hookups for cooking, heating and hot-water tanks and require electric power instead.


https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-natural-gas-ban-what-is-renewable-fossil-fuels/14353054/
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/proposed-chicago-ordinance-banning-natural-gas-new-buildings
https://news.wttw.com/2024/01/23/battle-begins-ban-natural-gas-new-chicago-homes-businesses-fight-climate-change
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2024/1/22/24047447/brandon-johnson-ban-natural-gas-new-homes-buildings

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Comments

  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,627
    Another another political opportunist.

    How is all that new electricity gonna be produced? Mainly from fossil fuels.

    How is the already strained power grid gonna carry it?
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    WaherWMno57delcrossv
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,408
    edited January 2024
    In October 2022, City Hall announced that outside advisers, including advocacy organizations, had recommended a ban as part of a larger climate-fighting plan. Those recommendations inspired the buildings ordinance, which was not publicly available as of Monday.

    The law would set an indoor emissions standard that eliminates use of fossil fuels in new construction and building additions of more than 10,000 square feet. It would likely go into effect one year after it's passed by the City Council.

  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,408
    edited January 2024
    Ironman said:

    How is all that new electricity gonna be produced?
    Mainly from fossil fuels.

    A while back, the greater Chicago area got almost half of their electricity from nuclear. I haven't checked recently.
    Ironman said:

    How is the already strained power grid gonna carry it?

    In the last 20 years, Chicago has had many problems with this.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 25,365
    Coming to a site near you!
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,408
    edited January 2024
    I find the whole electrification thing fascinating.
    My son landed his first career job last summer. He has been full time training for 6 months. Friday night will be his first shift out of the classroom. He will punch in at 6:00 PM wearing an old pair of my safety toe boots.
    He is working at a Nuclear Power Plant on the East Coast.
    PC7060delcrossv
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,408
    While Johnson is backed by health and environmental proponents, the upcoming debate points to a possible showdown with labor.

    One of the most powerful unions in the state, Local 150 of the International Union of Operating Engineers, opposes the proposed city law, saying “a ban restricts options.”

    “We want to be part of a plan that addresses the goals of a cleaner city, while providing a range of energy options that set Chicago up for growth in the future,” said spokeswoman Kristine Kavanagh.

    Sean Gaurige, business manager for the UWUA Local 18007 Gas Workers Union, said electric power outages show that natural gas is still needed.

    “We just had this cold snap a couple days ago and heard all over the news 20,000 ComEd [electric] customers out. Forty-thousand customers out,” he said. “You probably didn’t hear any Peoples Gas customers out. Gas is more reliable.”
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,513
    The courts have been striking these bans down. I think Berkeley, CA was the latest to fall.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
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    WMno57delcrossv
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,068
    edited January 2024
    new buildings and homes


    Take a breath


    Sean Gaurige, business manager for the UWUA Local 18007 Gas Workers Union, said electric power outages show that natural gas is still needed.

    “We just had this cold snap a couple days ago and heard all over the news 20,000 ComEd [electric] customers out. Forty-thousand customers out,” he said. “You probably didn’t hear any Peoples Gas customers out. Gas is more reliable.”


    I guess all those customers just lit burners on their stoves to stay warm. A rather disingenuous argument.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,408
    edited January 2024
    @ethicalpaul
    Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't clear. Those are not my words. I'm quoting from the local news. Quotes from Chicago area Media are in gray. I'll try to go back and attribute those.

    Sean Gaurige has a point. The gas networks have higher availability than the electric grid. If a home owner has a backup generator or solar panels, an electric outage with a gas furnace/boiler is no big deal.
    I posted this breaking news to inform, not argue. For a variety of reasons, I and my son's lives are heavily involved in all this. Tens of thousands of acres of productive farmland within 20 miles of my house are being taken out of production and covered with solar panels from China.
    This is the Gold Rush of our time. Fortunes will be made, and lost. People will die, no matter what direction we take. My son was getting his Masters in Physics in Texas when they had their infamous power outage. He is young and healthy and got through it fine. 250 to 750 people died.

    delcrossvjringel
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,408


    Take a breath
    As we all know sometimes the media is less than clear. Apparently this proposed legislation was introduced yesterday, to be brought up in city council tomorrow. I read one source that said the legislation was not available to be read yet.
    No comment on Chicago Politics. It would take hours to explain that.
    I will try to keep this updated as we all learn more.
    delcrossv
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,970
    Hertz getting rid of Tesla's, Tesla's won't charge when they are cold. MA is trying to ban new gas installations in some towns (maybe they already have) California wants all electric houses.

    An electrical forum I go on they are talking 600 & 800 amp services for some houses Crazy
    delcrossv
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,675
    edited January 2024
    Well, that's insane. Not unexpected from Hizzoner. 🙄

    And while we do still get almost half our juice from Uranium, there isn't enough supply nor grid capacity to electrify everything, and Exelon is not planning any new plants. Photovoltaics are a joke in our climate. Hopefully the Council will have more sense.
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,408
    Chicago Tribune says

    Johnson’s ordinance prohibits the combustion of any substance that emits 25 kilograms or more of carbon dioxide per million British thermal units of energy, the same standard New York City set in a law enacted in 2021.

    Some buildings and equipment would not have to meet the new emissions standard, including hospitals, research laboratories, emergency backup power generators and commercial cooking equipment.
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,675
    edited January 2024
    KarlW said:
    A step in the right direction, but it's limited to Small Modular Reactors (SMR's) which are less than 300 MWe.

    In contrast, Braidwood Station is 2GWe- or almost 8 times the output. We'd need a bunch of SMR's to make this workable- and the distribution to get all that juice to the customers. And that's not happening any time soon.

    Guess putting in the infrastructure isn't part of Hizzoner's "plan".
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,675
    edited January 2024
    WMno57 said:

    Chicago Tribune says

    So homeowners, landlords and commercial real estate developers will be footing the bill. Forget new industry, it's all left for the 'burbs or out of state. Hope the Gasfitters Union and 150 sinks this one deep.
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,408
    edited January 2024
    The full proposal here:
    https://news.wttw.com/sites/default/files/article/file-attachments/cd502415-4ff4-440a-8f92-7cdf53888b00.pdf

    I found the proposal in this article here:
    https://news.wttw.com/2024/01/23/battle-begins-ban-natural-gas-new-chicago-homes-businesses-fight-climate-change
    above article also breaks down the current sources of electricity
    ComEd, which powers every building in Chicago, gets 39% of its electricity from renewable sources, all but 6% from nuclear power, according to the utility’s disclosure report. The rest comes from natural gas and coal, according to the report.
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,675
    edited January 2024
    Oh, this is bad. No space heating at all.

    Combustion for the primary purpose of operating a hospital or
    similar healthcare facility, and that is not used to supply space heating or domestic hot water.

    Combustion for the primary purpose of cooking in a commercial kitchen, and that is not used to
    supply space heating or domestic hot water.


    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,408
    critics of the measure used a parliamentary maneuver to send the measure to the Rules Committee. That means the Rules Committee must now determine which committee can take up the ordinance before it can be debated in committee, delaying consideration of the proposal by up to a month.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/city-council-proposed-ordinance-natural-gas-ban/

    delcrossv

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