Help with finding gas valve

Gescha

I have an old Crane gas hot water heater. It is older than I am and I'm 65.
Made in 1951 I think.  The gas valve was replaced at some point with a Robert Shaw Champion valve.
I know the thermocouple is week and needs replacing but it is not acting right at all. Even after taking the thermocouple loose from the valve,the pilot still burns. Kinda dangerous I think.
I am trying to locate a replacement gas valve.
Can anybody out there help.

mattmia2

@Larry Weingarten would know better but I dont think modern water heater valves would fit this. Probably would need to use a combination millivolt valve, an aquastat, and a thermopile if you really want to make it work.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Gescha

It's a good idea to post with some pictures and the gas valve model. Is this a hot water heater or a boiler?

No one here has x ray vision we need information to be able to help.

Mad Dog_2

Ask Timmie Mc Elwain...Mad Dog 🐕 

mattmia2

Or is this a boiler, not a water heater? My answer is for a water heater with an old style valve. If it is a boiler not having a total shutoff system is normal for before sometime in the 60's.

Larry Weingarten

Hi @Gescha , We do need pictures. Many of the old water heaters were "external flue". This means they need a longer probe going into the water than modern tanks have. Finding a valve to fit will likely be tricky. Another thought is to use the present heater as a tempering tank, to somewhat preheat a conventional water heater. I love keeping old heaters going, but not if it's unsafe. Does your heater even have a temperature and pressure relief valve?

Yours, Larry

Gescha

If you read my post I stated that it's a Crane hot water heater. Trying to post pics but can't be sure they are going through. 

Gescha

Mad Dog_2

Good luck finding that!  I would Not touch it.  You're really ready for a new water heater, sir.  Mad Dog 🐕 

WMno57

After I read the first post, my thought was there is no way a water heater is 73 years old. He must be talking about a boiler. Then I saw the pictures. Could that have had 73 years of use? Was it deadstock that was installed at a later date? I guess only the deadmen know.
I'd like to know more about the water quality. Guessing it is really good.
If it were mine, I would replace it. But I would feel bad about doing that. Wonder how much longer it could go?

Gescha

That's sort of how I feel.....of course I will replace it.....but, it really has been in this house working for 73 years. This was my grandparents home that I bought from the estate.
I was born in 1958. That water heater had never been replaced.  The date code shows it was made in 1951.  The gas valve has been replaced sometimes in its life.
I have replaced the thermocouple once.
Water quality is still really good.
Even after I install a new one.....I am considering changing the dead thermocouple again and putting it in my shop. I wonder what the record is for water heater longevity? 

Larry Weingarten

Hi, That is one of the very few gas valves that actually has a temperature setting in degrees on it😊. Also, unlike modern valves, it was designed so you could get into it. If parts were available, it could probably be fixed, but the reality is that the heater has given lots of service and should now be considered a museum piece. It almost certainly has either a copper or Monel tank, which is why it has lasted so long. It wasn't law in the US for water heaters to have a relief valves until around 1960, so yours may not have that important device. It's time to get a new heater. Keep checking/replacing the anode as needed and you will never need another heater, even if you make it to 115! 😉
Yours, Larry

Ps. I have run across heaters still in service that were over 85 years old, but they have been the copper coil in a cast iron jacket type of heater.

mattmia2

The relief valve is an issue. Looking at where the safety valve is I don't think that is a total shutoff valve, it isn't designed to shut off the pilot when the safety valve closes. If there is a tapping that you can get the probe in to the tank a relief valve could be added but that ancient gas valve concerns me as far as leaks and reliability go. I still don't see why it couldn't be replaced with an aquastat and a millivolt valve but that somehow got a disagree without explanation from @ScottSecor .

Crane made a lot of boilers and people misname heating appliances in their questions all the time, that is why some thought it was a boiler.

WMno57

Larry Weingarten said:

It almost certainly has either a copper or Monel tank, which is why it has lasted so long.

That might have significant scrap value.

ScottSecor

@mattmia2 I apologize for hitting the disagree icon. I actually agree with your comment on this topic. I also agree that @Larry Weingarten knows a thing or two about water heaters. I got to meet Larry at The General Society of Mechanics and Tradesman years ago and we got to see part of his collection.

Regardless of the materials used in this Crane water heater, I am very concerned that the flame stays on when the thermocouple is disconnected. I think it might be time to replace the water heater.

I missed what area of the world this water heater is located. I'm guessing you have fantastic water. I also noticed the leaves near the base of the water heater, is this unit outside by chance?

Mad Dog_2

I'm an antique nut, but....Mad Dog 

dko

Out of curiosity,

What's in this compartment?

mattmia2

Access to light the pilot.

My parents' old water heater which i think was original to 1957 had a relief valve. It actually got replaced in the late 80's because it was old and small not because it was leaking.

You're not going to buy a new monel or copper tank although HTP makes some stainless ones.

WMno57

ScottSecor said:

@mattmia2 I apologize for hitting the disagree icon

It's a toggle. If you hit it again, it will go away. Try it out on my post. I get lots of frowny faces. A few more would be fun!

ScottSecor

Better??? I just hit most of the buttons, not sure any of them went through. Note to self, be careful not to hit wrong icon, especially on phone with cracked screen!

ScottSecor

Still wondering if this water heater is outside?

Mad Dog_2

You guys ever see a Trageser Copper Water heater 1950s?  They were made where I grew up Ozone Park & How'beach Queens around JFK International Airport. Pre- JFK Assassination, it was called IDLEWILD...The Trageser HWH said Idlewild on it...Mad Dog 🐕 

WMno57

ScottSecor said:

Better??? I just hit most of the buttons, not sure any of them went through. Note to self, be careful not to hit wrong icon, especially on phone with cracked screen!

It works just like this:

Gescha

This water heater is on a semi enclosed portion of a porch in Louisiana.  According to testing.... we do have high quality water in our town.
I installed a new thermocouple and it fires up and works well. The safety works as far as the main burner is concerned. Kill the pilot and safety cut off snaps quickly
It's the fact that if you extinguish the pilot.....gas continues to flow. I am no expert on these and for all I know, that may be normal.
But it sure bothers me. Maybe it's been working that way all of the time I've  had it.
There is a giant oak tree on the back side of that porch. No matter how I sweep the porch,  that explains the leaves.
I will replace it.....but feel it should be preserved in some way. Anything that has lasted this long should not go to the scrap yard.

mattmia2

Gescha said:

It's the fact that if you extinguish the pilot.....gas continues to flow. I am no expert on these and for all I know, that may be normal.
But it sure bothers me. Maybe it's been working that way all of the time I've  had it.

It was normal through sometime in the 60's. They don't do it that way anymore.

Mad Dog_2

Maybe you can carefully take apart the old gas valve and rebuild it? Mad 🐕 Dog 

Gescha

So if I'm understanding correctly, the safety never was made to shut gas off to the pilot?
The safety works and shuts off gas to main burer if thermocouple cools.

Tim McElwain

Get a new heater. Rebuilding controls is a code violation by the way. This guy has done its job time for one you will have to change every 10- to 12 years if you are lucky. Sorry!

Tim McElwain

Tragesar water heater were the WH of choice when I went to work for the gas company in 1967. They were the WH the gas company rented to consumers. I have three of them still working in a 3 tenament house were I used to live . They are well over 50 years old. They sure do not make them like they used to.