Need to replace auto flue damper. What should I purchase?

Slam713

Hello all,

live in Evanston, IL and have a hot water boiler system with hot water radiators. Basic as it comes. Recently I heard the unit cycling on and off. Flue damper would just spin and spin and each cycle cause the unit to ignite and then turn off within 15 seconds or so. 

This is the damper that is installed. Had a local company/tech come take a look. They confirmed they think it’s a faulty damper. Checked the gas valve and the hot water pump and all the gauges to make sure it’s operating in the correct range. Everything looked good.  

Im a union electrician, so I can easily replace it and wire it back up. For the people in the industry, is there a 6” flue damper equivalent that would be easy to just swap out for the one photographed above? I’ve seen a lot of options online and Amazon, but I don’t honestly know a good brand from a bad or how most wire up. 

I trust my electrical skills, but I obv don’t have the HVAC knowledge as some on here might. Thanks for the help. Let me know if more information is needed. 

dko

What aquastat

Steamhead

@Slam713 , we do not discuss pricing on this forum. You need to edit your post and remove the pricing.

Now.

See: https://heatinghelp.com/forum-user-manual

Slam713

Done, my bad.

Slam713

dko said:

What aquastat

Excuse my ignorance. Not sure what an aquastat is. Here are photos that might be relevant. 

Are these what you’re after? Again, sorry for my lack of understanding. 

STEVEusaPA

So the local tech came took a look and determined you needed a new damper. Why not just have them install one for you and be done with it?

Slam713

STEVEusaPA said:

So the local tech came took a look and determined you needed a new damper. Why not just have them install one for you and be done with it?

It was very very expensive. For the part and effort, I could do the work myself. Just want assistance with the correct replacement part. Based off what I see online it’s not a hugely expensive part. Just not sure if all auto dampers are the same, is there an industry preferred brand, and similar wiring style/harness. 

EdTheHeaterMan

Are you able to get heat by setting that damper to manual open? that wya the emergency is over. Then you will get a Field 6" damper and you will need the connect is wire by wire because the standard 4 pin to 6 pin connection cord was not the standard when the Johnson Controls damper was popular.

Diagram to follow.

By the way, the Aquastat is a thermostat inside the boiler that turns off the burner when the boiler water temperature reacher the limit setting. It may be called High Limit on your wiring diagram

EdTheHeaterMan

Can you post a picture of the wiring diagram?

STEVEusaPA

Slam713 said:

It was very very expensive. For the part and effort, I could do the work myself. Just want assistance with the correct replacement part. Based off what I see online it’s not a hugely expensive part. Just not sure if all auto dampers are the same, is there an industry preferred brand, and similar wiring style/harness. 

Does the same apply when you charge people for the electrical work that you do?
Don’t you think that’s a pretty unfair approach by a fellow tradesman?
It’s not just wholesale price for parts plus wages that go into the price of a job…you know that, right?

dko

Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi

EdTheHeaterMan

Your old discontinued Johnson Controls vent damper may have the proper Molex plug to connect a new Field Control to your boiler. It may have a CARD EDGE plug that actually slides over the edge of a printed circuit board edge. Either way you will need to get the Field vent damper and connect it safely. Here is a link to a discussion I commented on a few years ago. https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1786301#Comment_1786301

Here is the part you need to order
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-Controls-GVD-6PL-6-Automatic-GVD-Vent-Damper-11703000-p

And you may need this or it may not have what you need. I have never used the wire/adaptor kit
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-Controls-46579100-GVD-UWK-8-Harness-w-Conduit-Universal

EdTheHeaterMan

STEVEusaPA said:

Slam713 said:

It was very very expensive. For the part and effort, I could do the work myself. Just want assistance with the correct replacement part. Based off what I see online it’s not a hugely expensive part. Just not sure if all auto dampers are the same, is there an industry preferred brand, and similar wiring style/harness. 

Does the same apply when you charge people for the electrical work that you do?
Don’t you think that’s a pretty unfair approach by a fellow tradesman?
It’s not just wholesale price for parts plus wages that go into the price of a job…you know that, right?

I agree with you Steve... to a point. But You probably fix your stuff from time to time without calling the professional. Can you say you always call an electrician to wire up a new oil burner for a customer? Do you always call a plumber if you need to solder a new hose bib on a frozen pipe in your home. And when it comes to adding a new television to a different room, You cant tell me you have never put a coax splitter on your cable lines in your home.

We that are handy at mechanical things do more that just drive a oil truck and replace a burner nozzle when it comes to our own stuff. Give him a break! Money is tight for some of us these days.

Jamie Hall

Ah... I hate to bring it up, but did I see a pressure gauge for the system reading zero? That's not good -- should be about 12 to 15...

WMno57

Besides losing some heat up the chimney are there other disadvantages to deleting the damper?

Jamie Hall

WMno57 said:

Besides losing some heat up the chimney are there other disadvantages to deleting the damper?

Not that i know of. I don't have one on Cedric, and we have defeated (locked manually open) the ones on the other houses we care for (with the acquiescence of the owners) because they are just one more point of failure... at oh dark hundred in a blizzard... no thank you.

STEVEusaPA

EdTheHeaterMan said:

I agree with you Steve... to a point. But You probably fix your stuff from time to time without calling the professional. Can you say you always call an electrician to wire up a new oil burner for a customer? Do you always call a plumber if you need to solder a new hose bib on a frozen pipe in your home. And when it comes to adding a new television to a different room, You cant tell me you have never put a coax splitter on your cable lines in your home.

We that are handy at mechanical things do more that just drive a oil truck and replace a burner nozzle when it comes to our own stuff. Give him a break! Money is tight for some of us these days.

Ed, Knock it off. Yes of course I fix my own stuff. With your thousand word soliloquy you missed my point.
I went to vo tech for electrical construction-I do all my own wiring, but I had an electrician do my remodel and install my generator, and for my rental properties. I didn’t get a price then go to an electrical forum to get a parts breakdown and a how to.
Do my own plumbing repairs, again, except as above.
A coax splitter is a ridiculous comparison, and btw all those connections are mostly gone. Everything is wireless/wifi.
I don’t bring a professional tradesperson to my house to diagnose an issue I can’t fix, don’t have the skills or replacement parts to find out what’s wrong. Then not have them fix it, go onto a website and prove lack of knowledge by asking too many rudimentary questions. And especially as a fellow tradesman, complain about the price. You do know what union electricians make, right? He must (should) have friends in the trades he could ask, or give them the job. I’ve bartered too many times to even remember.

But luckily you’re here to save the day. Carry on.

Steamhead

EdTheHeaterMan said:

Your old discontinued Johnson Controls vent damper may have the proper Molex plug to connect a new Field Control to your boiler. It may have a CARD EDGE plug that actually slides over the edge of a printed circuit board edge. Either way you will need to get the Field vent damper and connect it safely. Here is a link to a discussion I commented on a few years ago. https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1786301#Comment_1786301

Here is the part you need to order
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-Controls-GVD-6PL-6-Automatic-GVD-Vent-Damper-11703000-p

And you may need this or it may not have what you need. I have never used the wire/adaptor kit
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-Controls-46579100-GVD-UWK-8-Harness-w-Conduit-Universal

That Johnson damper appears to use a standard 4-pin plug, just like one I recently replaced. It should plug into the new Field damper without issue.

Also note that current-model Field and Effikal (same thing) dampers have replacement motor assemblies available, which also contain the safety interlocks. The replacement takes an hour at the most. This means if the motor fails, there is no need for a whole new damper unless for some reason it is in poor condition. The replacement part # is GVD-RMA. We carry them on our trucks, as any proper service company should.

In addition to keeping heat from drafting out of the boiler during the off cycle, the damper also reduces air infiltration into the building when it is closed. So it saves energy in two ways. This is why we don't disable dampers unless it's an emergency.

EdTheHeaterMan

WMno57 said:

Besides losing some heat up the chimney are there other disadvantages to deleting the damper?

Only one. the control that a vent damper is plugged into has a circuit that prohibits the average technician from just adding a jumper across the end switch contacts of the boiler control (L8148, L8124, and S8610U and S8900 ignition controls for example) equipped with the 6 pin plug. You need to get a fresh control that still has the Damper Circuit Fuse still in place.

Other than that, if you know how to reenable your control that has the 6 pin Molex plug to work without the damper, then you don't need a damper. The manufacturer needed that damper to reach a minimum efficiency to get that yellow tag with a high enough AFUE number, in order to be able to sell that boiler in the USA. If you don't mind loosing a small amount of efficiency, then you can operate without the damper in the real world.

In the fake world of insurance companies, code enforcement inspectors, and boiler manufacturers, you have modified the equipment and that is reason for a annual inspection failure, or denying an insurance claim, or failing a final inspection so the installing contractor can get paid for your job. But if you boiler is 15 years old in your home, and has a defective damper and you decide to remove it completely, on your own, the system will not blow up, cause a fire, or cost you thousands of dollars in utility bills. The same version of that boiler that is 30 years old may still be operating just fine without a damper because it never had one.

That is my 2 cents.

MikeAmann

There was a recent thread here about a member being charged 4/5 of 1K dollars to replace a damper.
Does anyone consider that fair pricing? Besides the old-school used car salesman, that is.
If that is the case, then I can't blame @Slam713 for wanting to DIY.

Slam713

EdTheHeaterMan said:

Your old discontinued Johnson Controls vent damper may have the proper Molex plug to connect a new Field Control to your boiler. It may have a CARD EDGE plug that actually slides over the edge of a printed circuit board edge. Either way you will need to get the Field vent damper and connect it safely. Here is a link to a discussion I commented on a few years ago. https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1786301#Comment_1786301 Here is the part you need to order https://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-Controls-GVD-6PL-6-Automatic-GVD-Vent-Damper-11703000-p And you may need this or it may not have what you need. I have never used the wire/adaptor kit https://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-Controls-46579100-GVD-UWK-8-Harness-w-Conduit-Universal

Thank you. I will look into this. Excuse my late response, had a 24 hour bug last night and felt miserable.

I will order the damper first and check the connector. If it doesn’t match I’ll order the conversion kit.

Wanted to clarify something as well. This was not a local tech in the sense he was a self employed person who does HVAC work, I should have said tech from a local company. A good company, but they are all known for being on the higher side. If it was anything involving the plumbing or gas part of the furnace it would have been a no brainer. But this is super easy and will save me a lot of money. Plus, if I can fix it and learn something in the process, that’s awesome. Furthermore, I only did comercial and industrial construction, so I never had to worry about what’s being charged to a customer. Just show up to work and do my job. Ha

Thanks to everyone who helped. I will come back and post an update when I get it installed and let y’all know how it went. 

Slam713

New damper installed, no more cycling, no more banging while in trying to watch tv. LOL

Thank you all. One hour, couple of bad words working the duct work back together and everything is working as it should.