Older Weil McLain boiler; fire box corrosion

mattmich

Hello!

My name is Matt, I'm new here, and I have screwed up. I am asking for help so I can deal with my situation in a grown-up way.

The screwup is failing to pay proper attention to my Weil McLain steam boiler. I believe it to be an EG or EGH model per the circuit diagram, and a call to the mothership told me it was manufactured in 1992, though they could not confirm the model.

We live in central Michigan.

A helpful technician showed me some years ago how to drain & refill the boiler, and how to pay attention to the water level and check the low-water warning lamp and automatic circuit. He also showed me how to swap a thermocouple, and I came away with the impression that these units are pretty maintenance free.

Fast forward some maintenance-free years to the start of this heating period, when I noticed two things: yellow light coming from one side of the burner box, and more heat in the boiler room in the basement. I found that two of the seven burner tubes had become disconnected -- heavy corrosion on the support end had made this possible.

Gas was coming out of the spigots and was happily burning outside the fire box. I pushed the tubes back on, which made things considerably better, and I've been monitoring it since then to make sure things didn't get worse. I also put a CO alarm near the boiler, which has not complained.

The heat has been working fine all along, too.
Another positive is that I've kept 2+ feet of clear space around the boiler.

I have two goals here:
#1 stay alive and don't damage our house.
#2 get through the heating period so we don't have to make a twelve thousand dollar decision in haste, AND have major surgery with our backs to the wall. It was 0 F this morning. Not a great time for HVAC work.

Saving money is not by itself a driver; we own the house outright and we can afford a new boiler. We care very much about "value," though, so we want to make an informed and unrushed decision.

My plan, which I'm asking you to critique:
(i) Buy a CO monitor and measure in ppm to see how bad a situation I have.
(ii) Get two new burner tubes from Supplyhouse.com.
(iii) Install these new tubes and rig them in such a way that they'll stay put and in proper orientation.

In the spring, get professionals to come in and advise. They will probably recommend a new boiler, but we'll let them explain it.

It might of course be best to call a technician right now. I'm worried about being forced into immediate replacement. Is that something to be concerned about? I don't know the rules, but I know that they can be Draconian when it comes to gas.

Your comments and insights would be appreciated.
I will attempt to attach some pictures -- I took more, but I'm trying not to overload.

Thanks in advance,
Matt

Steamhead

The boiler is leaking. That's what caused the rust/corrosion. Figure on replacing it soon.Make the call now.

EdTheHeaterMan

Get a contractor that will use Steel pipe and iron fittings to put the new boiler together. the Copper risers are a sign of incompetence on the part of the previous installer. Quite possibly the reason for the boiler leaking that caused the problem to begin with.

If you don't install swing joints so the pipes can give a little during expansion when it heats up and contraction when it cools down, something else has to give. The gaskets between the sections are probably leaking steam and causing that burner box to rot away.

mattmich

>> The boiler is leaking. That's what caused the rust/corrosion.

>> Get a contractor that will use Steel pipe and iron fittings to put the new boiler together. the Copper risers are a sign of incompetence on the part of the previous installer.

Thanks to both of you.

This fits with what I know about the house and its owners:

Built in 1929, by a family with money -- owners of a small local bank.
Sold to a family with little money some time in the fifties, and then sold to my wife and me in 1997.

From electrical to plumbing, just about every piece of later work seemed to have been done shoddily.
For example, in 2010 a wet spot appeared in the wall between the shower and our bedroom.
It was a leak caused by galvanic corrosion where copper was mated directly to galvanized steel. I fixed that myself, and it wasn't fun. Soldering copper pipe in wood-framed walls? Ugh. The plumber took over a week to even give an estimate, so I saw the light. That's on par for me with contractors, even when I get recommendations.

The instructive part is that the pipes stayed tight at least 13 years and maybe much longer. My parents had an incompetent plumber mate dissimilar metals without a dielectric union, and it leaked within two years. We have soft water, and that slows the process. I think™.

Galvanic corrosion is probably exactly what's happening here, but it took three decades to get bad. When you say "risers", that's got to be the 4 inch (?) vertical steam pipes coming from the top of the boiler, correct? They would have to corrode at the joint at the top of the boiler. "The laws of physics are strictly enforced," to quote my former boss. This would create a leak that never leaves a puddle, because there's only steam pressure when there's a flame. That all makes sense to me.

The old company's sticker is still on the boiler. So they're out.
I just got a recommendation for another one. They installed a new boiler at a colleague's house, and he was happy with the work.

I'll have them come out and ask them to assess. If they aren't worried about the copper risers, does that mean I should forget them, too? Steam heat is a little unusual out here, and if HVAC folks are like car mechanics -- where I have some expertise myself -- then Oy Vey on finding a good one.

Thanks again, and I'm glad I found this place.
Best,
Matt

EBEBRATT-Ed

@mattmich

Send a message to @offdutytech he is in Michigan but may not be in your area. He may be able to recommend someone. He does excellent work. Steam pros are scarce in your area

mattmich

@EBEBRATT-Ed

Thanks. I have done so.

Here is a link to an album showing the full setup, if anyone is interested.
The eight-inch-to-six-inch reduction in the exhaust is a nice touch. The chimney folks explained to me why it was a good idea, and the city inspector signed off on it. What do I know.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/196596407@N06/r274v09v98

Best,
Matt

WMno57

mattmich said:

Galvanic corrosion is probably exactly what's happening here, but it took three decades to get bad. When you say "risers", that's got to be the 4 inch (?) vertical steam pipes coming from the top of the boiler, correct? They would have to corrode at the joint at the top of the boiler.

Not a corrosion issue. Copper has a greater coefficient of thermal expansion than steel pipe. The copper pipes are expanding too much ripping you boiler apart where the sections are joined.

heathead

You need to read other posts on replacing a steam boiler. When you replace that boiler you need to size it based upon radiator size not heat loss to the house. Need to pipe new boiler as in owners manual, you would be amazed how many problems await if not followed. Hopefully you can use the person recommended by Ebebratt-ED.

mattmich

There's been progress. I invite comments; no need to be gentle.

So the old tubes maybe weren't the best anymore... and the new ones don't have much reason to stay in the proper orientation, what with the box so corroded.

So I crimped up some encouragement from 14 gauge copper.
I'll come up with something more solid so I can leave the house with the heat on, I just wanted to see the new tubes in operation.

mattmich

Here are a couple more pictures of the burner in action.





That last one was with the flash by mistake... it shows the back of the box a bit better.



Any thoughts, assuming I get the new tubes to stay put?

Thanks!
Matt

realliveplumber

Brother you are throwing away good money for bad.

Its really unsafe. Really unsafe. You really should turn it off.

mattmich

@realliveplumber

I appreciate your response. Doesn't mean I like it, but I take it seriously.

>> good money for bad.

I need a new boiler, that is clear. We have money set aside for stuff like that, that's not the issue.

The issue is that it's going to be -4 F on Saturday, and it's 18 now and dropping. This 95-year-old house doesn't have the plumbing to just empty the pipes. My Sawzall would probably work.

I've made contact with a member here, sent him some pictures and we talked last night. He'll try to come out this weekend and start the process. He might be too far away to do the actual install, but it's a start. He didn't know anyone local who's good.

Thankfully the missus is on travel for a week, so that helps, mentally at least. Nobody else on the line.

I have the new tubes mounted in such a way that they will not come off, and they will not rotate. When I push them off the spigots, they spring back, all seven of them.

>> unsafe

I'm not loving this, for sure. And I started this thread by stating I'd screwed up. Low maintenance is one thing, I went no maintenance. No excuse, it's not how I do stuff like cars, but it's what I did here.

I will say that it's safer than it was yesterday. For whatever that is worth. Case in point, I can now touch the outside of the burner box everywhere, comfortably. It was way too hot to touch in the far right corner (in the pictures.) I'm not patting myself on the back here.. it's not good. It's just less bad.

>> turn it off.

There are steps between "turn it off" and "pretend everything is OK." Like only running the heat when someone's home and awake. There's a CO monitor and a fire alarm in the boiler room.

I'm not trying to run this thing another year; I'm trying to buy time so I can get a new boiler, and do it right.

Again, thanks for your feedback. It's weighing on me.
-Matt

realliveplumber

I get it, and I wish you well. I just wanted you to be aware. Please be careful.

I know it is not convenient, it really sucks.

We have had customers in a similar situation. We winterized the building. I mean properly winterized it. A 185 cfm tow behind compressor, and blow out all of the piping, including washing machines, icemakers, and humidifiers. We either shut off the water service at the curb and drain the main, or add heat tape, or a 100 watt bulb at the main where it enters the basement. Or both.

A coupe of oil filled radiators in the basement usually allows for threading pipe without getting frostbite.

The owners spent a few nights in a hotel.

It is a pain, but it beats the alternative. And the alternative could be a really bad outcome.

Just offering some ideas to think about.